05-15-2014, 03:07 AM
edited to add: Dagnabit! Bwaites has again posted excellent info while I was slowly typing away. Rats.
I will provide a bit of information, since the original threads have been moved twice and are long, tedious, and contentious. My old links do not work anymore, so the search function may be confusedas well.
If you have read about the Stoner/Midway issue, you will realize that a number of members feel cheated and lied to. In short, some people bought new barrels marked "Grendel" and discovered that some factory ammo would not fit. They were assured that the chambers and throats were within spec. Nevertheless, many had to pay to have the throat reamed enough to take factory ammo. I will, of course, not publicly say that I agree with them. No sir, not me. These "Grendel" barrels disappeared from Midway and before long "Grendel II" barrels, with a larger reamed throats, suddenly appeared. This does not generate a warm, fuzzy feeling about Stoner, Saturn (the actual manufacturer), or Midway, for that matter.
Technical stuff:
First of all, Grendel II is a bit of a misnomer. Its leade/throat combination was tried then rejected by the Grendel design team. A true Grendel has an unusual 2-angle "compound throat." This feature was created to allow more bullet shapes, in particular those of some match or competition bullets, to shoot well , given the cartridge length constraints of the AR15 magazine. The "Grendel II" chamber has a more typical straight section (leade) followed by single angle throat. It is in fact more closely related to the .264 LBC chamber than the Grendel one.
"Why was the Grendel II chambering invented?" As noted above, it uses a more typical leade-throat configuration. As it turns out, the reamers are easier to make and easier to resharpen. The second reason, which is the sore point with many in this forum, is that the "Grendel II" leade-throat is shaped so that Grendel throats, undersized or not, will be completely removed by the new reamer. It is generally believed that some of the original "Grendel" chambers were flawed, as were some of the cambers in unsold barrels. Some believe that the unsold barrels were recalled, reamed with the "Grendel II" reamer, relabeled then returned for sale.
When all is said and done, rifles with the "Grendel/LBC II" can be accurate. Loads that perform well in a .264 LBC barrel will likely do well in them. The section of one of the older threads that I suggest you read are pages 7 and 8 of the following:
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...mber/page7
If you are a true masochist, read all of the related threads. Don't say that I did not warn you!
se3388 Wrote:. I was looking at the Stoner/Midway barrel but read about problems and then have read that the problems were fixed now. Why was the II chambering invented?
Steve.............
I will provide a bit of information, since the original threads have been moved twice and are long, tedious, and contentious. My old links do not work anymore, so the search function may be confusedas well.
If you have read about the Stoner/Midway issue, you will realize that a number of members feel cheated and lied to. In short, some people bought new barrels marked "Grendel" and discovered that some factory ammo would not fit. They were assured that the chambers and throats were within spec. Nevertheless, many had to pay to have the throat reamed enough to take factory ammo. I will, of course, not publicly say that I agree with them. No sir, not me. These "Grendel" barrels disappeared from Midway and before long "Grendel II" barrels, with a larger reamed throats, suddenly appeared. This does not generate a warm, fuzzy feeling about Stoner, Saturn (the actual manufacturer), or Midway, for that matter.
Technical stuff:
First of all, Grendel II is a bit of a misnomer. Its leade/throat combination was tried then rejected by the Grendel design team. A true Grendel has an unusual 2-angle "compound throat." This feature was created to allow more bullet shapes, in particular those of some match or competition bullets, to shoot well , given the cartridge length constraints of the AR15 magazine. The "Grendel II" chamber has a more typical straight section (leade) followed by single angle throat. It is in fact more closely related to the .264 LBC chamber than the Grendel one.
"Why was the Grendel II chambering invented?" As noted above, it uses a more typical leade-throat configuration. As it turns out, the reamers are easier to make and easier to resharpen. The second reason, which is the sore point with many in this forum, is that the "Grendel II" leade-throat is shaped so that Grendel throats, undersized or not, will be completely removed by the new reamer. It is generally believed that some of the original "Grendel" chambers were flawed, as were some of the cambers in unsold barrels. Some believe that the unsold barrels were recalled, reamed with the "Grendel II" reamer, relabeled then returned for sale.
When all is said and done, rifles with the "Grendel/LBC II" can be accurate. Loads that perform well in a .264 LBC barrel will likely do well in them. The section of one of the older threads that I suggest you read are pages 7 and 8 of the following:
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...mber/page7
If you are a true masochist, read all of the related threads. Don't say that I did not warn you!