30 arx

[mongoosesnipe]

If the thread is morphing into opinions of the Blackout I'm going to jump in here.

I've had one since they first came out. The original 16" barrel, 1:8twist with carbine-length gas system. Have hunted with it and spent beaucoup $$$ on trying every projectile I can find. My thoughts...A very average caliber. Supersonic is too slow, and subsonic suffers from over-penetration.

1. Ammo weight is heavy! Supersonic rounds weigh twice as much as .223, and three times as much subsonic. Try humping that around wondering if the ammunition weighs as much as 7.62 why you are not carrying a 7.62.
2. Slow rounds means rainbow trajectory, which means shorter point-blank-ranges and less forgiving when judging distances than a .223.
3. Supersonic goes transonic quicker than a .223. Max effective range is shorter than .223 by about 20%.
4. 30cal projectiles available for the Blackout don't fly apart under 2,000fps. Slow velocities mean no temp-wound-cavity in flesh in the wake of the wound channel. No blood bruising that you see with .223. Time and again I see the animals being hunted stagger and remain alive for far too long after being shot. A round fired at about 2.3K fps quickly drops below 2K fps and then you are shooting handicapped.
5. The caliber is sold on its amazing penetration and extra energy than the .223. Not worth a cracker when it's in one side out the other. The marketing hype of penetrating '21 jugs of water' and then '3" of timber' is moot when the round enters and exits 12" of flesh like a laser beam, taking all that potential energy with it, with no temp-wound-cavity in its wake. If you haven't hit anything critical in the crush-trail you end up shaking your head at the irresponsibility of wounding an animal in flight.
6. Subsonic is the same. Laser beams through the target. Unless you hit the brain you're in for a long walk.
7. Suppressed subsonic is relatively loud compared to an 9mm MP5 SD, and even louder than a .22upper. There are only two dedicated subsonic hunting/flesh bullet manufacturers I am aware of; LeHigh and Outlaw State. These rounds are expensive. Main manufacturers of subsonic ammunition use stock 30cal match projectiles that are not designed for flesh. Great for paper if that's all you want the caliber for.

Subsonic Blackout leaves no temp-wound-cavity at all. So it's all up to shot placement and crush trail. You are carrying essentially an accurate .45 handgun (220gr @ 1,000fps). Max effective subsonic hunting range is about 150m with 100m being more like it. But, if you are not making use of the Blackout subsonic/suppressed then you have a pretty average gun compared to other AR calibres.

Here's a typical example of two shots fired subsonic using Outlaw State dedicated 30cal subsonic hunting projectiles. In one side out the other carrying all that 220gr of energy somewhere else. May as well have used match rounds. Or a .22LR... probably would have done more damage!

Entry holes; 70m and then a kill shot close-up.


Exit holes; No ballistic-tip damage, no gaping holes.


The caliber sounds impressive on paper but it is slow, and subsonic is a whole different ball-game when hunting flesh. Trying to tell this to aficionado's on the Blackout forum is like walking into a mosque wearing an 'Infidels Rule' T shirt. Most treat it like a religion and refuse to listen. If ammunition manufacturers made projies designed to work when slow then it would help but until then...don't give up your Grendels gentlemen.

you are completely correct in saying that the blackout is not a replacement for the 223, or grendel, or 6.8 or the 30-30 or the numerous other calibers it has been compared to for the purpose of marketing and selling guns

but you did hit on what the blackouts actual competition is

the caliber the 300 whisper/blackout is designed to compete against is the 9mm which it handily beats in every conceivable department except maybe noise but i would attribute that to the action noise of the AR15 combined with blow back from the short gas system and fast powders used from a single shot or bolt gun the or even a AR with the gas system turned off blackout can be very, very quiet

as for subsonic bullet expansion i have that covered on the cheap with 247 grain cast bullets
bullets were fired into wet newspaper at 1035 fps