09-28-2013, 07:11 AM
I agree with Gunner...If using SS on flesh you definitely need the bullet to do something when it hits. Essentially you have turned your Grendel into a handgun; 160gn projectiles impacting the target at sub-sonic speeds.
I have done some testing SS with a .300 Blackout, enough to know that your usual hunting bullets designed for supersonic impact act like monoliths when subsonic. I've tried ballistic tips, soft noses, Barnes TSX and FMJ Match projies. They all act like big lumps of metal that neither fragment or expand, more like crumple and bend. Impressive penetration, however that means in one side, out the other taking a whole lot of valuable energy with them.
I am now testing 220gn hunting rds designed by Outlaw State Bullets in the Blackout. Outlaw State and LeHigh are the only two companies that I am aware manufacturing jacketed dedicated SS hunting projies. Neither produce them in 6.5mm. The Outlaw State has the jacket cut all the way to the base in four petals with a severe hollow point to aid expansion at low speeds.
The majority of Whisper/Blackout shooters (see other forum) load normal supersonic projies for subsonic shooting and either shoot holes in paper at the range or those few that use them hunting hope the bullet will tumble on hitting flesh.
6.8gn Trail Boss (TB) behind a 220gn in a Blackout gives 900fps but it does not cycle. It is as quiet as an 9mm H&K MP5SD, however as it is single shot only the relative value is questionable.
SS Loads that do cycle the action in a Blackout are noticeably louder than TB. i.e. louder than an H&K MP5 SD which is useful to compare against as it shoots pretty much the same weight; 147gn SS.
The conclusion of all this;
1. The Grendel will be similar the .300 Blackout in an AR. To reach cycling pressures of over 5,000lbs at the gas port means higher muzzle pressures at the suppressor. That means cycling subsonic will be louder than a 9mm suppresed SMG... The upside however is that by changing mags you can shoot supersonic to 1,000M which is something the SMG cannot do.
2. Unless the Subsonic 6.5 projectile does something more than act like a solid blob of metal when it hits flesh then you are worse off than a 9mm hollow point; which is designed to open-up subsonic. If you can get it to do something then it will be the same lethality as a 9mm handgun.
I have done some testing SS with a .300 Blackout, enough to know that your usual hunting bullets designed for supersonic impact act like monoliths when subsonic. I've tried ballistic tips, soft noses, Barnes TSX and FMJ Match projies. They all act like big lumps of metal that neither fragment or expand, more like crumple and bend. Impressive penetration, however that means in one side, out the other taking a whole lot of valuable energy with them.
I am now testing 220gn hunting rds designed by Outlaw State Bullets in the Blackout. Outlaw State and LeHigh are the only two companies that I am aware manufacturing jacketed dedicated SS hunting projies. Neither produce them in 6.5mm. The Outlaw State has the jacket cut all the way to the base in four petals with a severe hollow point to aid expansion at low speeds.
The majority of Whisper/Blackout shooters (see other forum) load normal supersonic projies for subsonic shooting and either shoot holes in paper at the range or those few that use them hunting hope the bullet will tumble on hitting flesh.
6.8gn Trail Boss (TB) behind a 220gn in a Blackout gives 900fps but it does not cycle. It is as quiet as an 9mm H&K MP5SD, however as it is single shot only the relative value is questionable.
SS Loads that do cycle the action in a Blackout are noticeably louder than TB. i.e. louder than an H&K MP5 SD which is useful to compare against as it shoots pretty much the same weight; 147gn SS.
The conclusion of all this;
1. The Grendel will be similar the .300 Blackout in an AR. To reach cycling pressures of over 5,000lbs at the gas port means higher muzzle pressures at the suppressor. That means cycling subsonic will be louder than a 9mm suppresed SMG... The upside however is that by changing mags you can shoot supersonic to 1,000M which is something the SMG cannot do.
2. Unless the Subsonic 6.5 projectile does something more than act like a solid blob of metal when it hits flesh then you are worse off than a 9mm hollow point; which is designed to open-up subsonic. If you can get it to do something then it will be the same lethality as a 9mm handgun.