09-11-2013, 04:39 AM
I think the development with CFE223 is really whats making it a closer argument, if the CFE or other High Velosity, lower pressure per payout technologies come available the two rounds will seem more and more alike, then its more of a preference thing than anything.
The 6.5 has an edge because the high BC Bullets and the technology push with the PPC crowd.
The 6.8 has the initial advantage because of Freedom Group and The military's 5 minutes evaluating the round.
Dont get me wrong, I load for both and have shot both but went to Grendel because of Hornady's interest and the "Real Standard" that is backing the 6.5. I read alot about the 6.8 and did a ton of research on it when I was recovering in Germany. The 6.8's Spec bull$h.. is what turned me off and then the primer confusion (Large/Small) just Pissed me off. I really truely and honestly wanted to see the 6.8 make it as an End User. But damn, pick a poison, drink it and stop all the lawyer derived neutering of the cartridge and it might float.
Mostly its Freedom groups crap of loading it with a primer size that they knew would weaken the cases' head and keep from getting more life out of their cases. Thats why everyone avoids the remington brass like a plague, if it weren't for SSA the 6.8 would have been dead when remington tried the whole forget the 6.8, here's something better, faster,and cheaper with the 30 Remington AR.
The fact is Remington bought into the 6.8 to push development of the 30 Rem AR down the Military's throat because the 6.5 and 6.8 didn't represent to those who make decisions in purchasing for the military a "Markable Clear Advantage over the 5.56"
They must have been smoking crack if they thought the military was going to give Privates two different 7.62's and let them sort it out. Not going to happen, when that was even hinted at, anyone with even a Basic Graduation Certificate shook their head is disgust because yet again nobody cared about Soldiers, Marines or Airmen that actually use the stuff.
SOCOM operators were pretty clear about the 6.8 before when they said that the 6.8 wasn't enough of a difference to make any change even on a small level like theirs. Compared to big Army, SOCOM and SOCCENT are VERY small end Users. They may seem cool to the outsider who watches it on TV but when the Berets get left behind, the BS does too. Historically small buisnesses were approaching big Army through using SOCOM as a proving ground because if privates and the old man command saw SOCOM use it, it has to be good. Its also why in Afghanistan I had 3 Beowulf uppers in my office with no ammo to be found. On paper everything was great in reality theres unforseen things like muzzleblast you can see on paper and sometimes dumb privates and NCO's who want to look cool in front of them do stupid crap like clearing a small space with one and it blinds everyone trying to just do their job. I asked over and over for 50 Beo ammo and we were told by the supply wizards that all of it was pulled from the system. I know that in the real world 10" barrels are needed for some jobs and other times a 20 is needed and right now the 5.56 has more use in both than the 6.5 or 6.8 will sadly ever see. So the Army will stay with the 5.56 and step the ammo up when its needed. (Although I wish the would get away from the tree hugger ammo, it sucks at everything)
But I could be wrong, either like it or don't.
Sidenote: Please oh please god, let some Civilian Impaired person talk crap about wound channels with 5.56 and 7.62x39. So I can show the channel cut down my right arm, the entry and exit holes on my legs and point out that I know of at least one 7.62 that didnt help its owner delay his meeting with Allah. I dare you.
I'm so sick of this topic and those who try to ruin two good forums about two good rounds.
Anyway, rant over for me, I'll just sit back and watch this thing burn.
The 6.5 has an edge because the high BC Bullets and the technology push with the PPC crowd.
The 6.8 has the initial advantage because of Freedom Group and The military's 5 minutes evaluating the round.
Dont get me wrong, I load for both and have shot both but went to Grendel because of Hornady's interest and the "Real Standard" that is backing the 6.5. I read alot about the 6.8 and did a ton of research on it when I was recovering in Germany. The 6.8's Spec bull$h.. is what turned me off and then the primer confusion (Large/Small) just Pissed me off. I really truely and honestly wanted to see the 6.8 make it as an End User. But damn, pick a poison, drink it and stop all the lawyer derived neutering of the cartridge and it might float.
Mostly its Freedom groups crap of loading it with a primer size that they knew would weaken the cases' head and keep from getting more life out of their cases. Thats why everyone avoids the remington brass like a plague, if it weren't for SSA the 6.8 would have been dead when remington tried the whole forget the 6.8, here's something better, faster,and cheaper with the 30 Remington AR.
The fact is Remington bought into the 6.8 to push development of the 30 Rem AR down the Military's throat because the 6.5 and 6.8 didn't represent to those who make decisions in purchasing for the military a "Markable Clear Advantage over the 5.56"
They must have been smoking crack if they thought the military was going to give Privates two different 7.62's and let them sort it out. Not going to happen, when that was even hinted at, anyone with even a Basic Graduation Certificate shook their head is disgust because yet again nobody cared about Soldiers, Marines or Airmen that actually use the stuff.
SOCOM operators were pretty clear about the 6.8 before when they said that the 6.8 wasn't enough of a difference to make any change even on a small level like theirs. Compared to big Army, SOCOM and SOCCENT are VERY small end Users. They may seem cool to the outsider who watches it on TV but when the Berets get left behind, the BS does too. Historically small buisnesses were approaching big Army through using SOCOM as a proving ground because if privates and the old man command saw SOCOM use it, it has to be good. Its also why in Afghanistan I had 3 Beowulf uppers in my office with no ammo to be found. On paper everything was great in reality theres unforseen things like muzzleblast you can see on paper and sometimes dumb privates and NCO's who want to look cool in front of them do stupid crap like clearing a small space with one and it blinds everyone trying to just do their job. I asked over and over for 50 Beo ammo and we were told by the supply wizards that all of it was pulled from the system. I know that in the real world 10" barrels are needed for some jobs and other times a 20 is needed and right now the 5.56 has more use in both than the 6.5 or 6.8 will sadly ever see. So the Army will stay with the 5.56 and step the ammo up when its needed. (Although I wish the would get away from the tree hugger ammo, it sucks at everything)
But I could be wrong, either like it or don't.
Sidenote: Please oh please god, let some Civilian Impaired person talk crap about wound channels with 5.56 and 7.62x39. So I can show the channel cut down my right arm, the entry and exit holes on my legs and point out that I know of at least one 7.62 that didnt help its owner delay his meeting with Allah. I dare you.
I'm so sick of this topic and those who try to ruin two good forums about two good rounds.
Anyway, rant over for me, I'll just sit back and watch this thing burn.