08-13-2013, 06:29 PM
LRRPF52 Wrote:Velocity will vary from barrel to barrel, even from consecutive barrels from the same manufacturer machined on the same tooling. Midway usually expects a 50% margin on their products, so do the math based on their pricing and you can get an idea of where they might be sourcing the "AR-Stoner" pipes from.
When I see a lot of their 5.56 barrels for $159.99, $119.99, or even $104.99, then figure-in even a 30% margin, there's no way those barrels are made in the US or Western/Central/Northern Europe. We're either looking at Central America or Asia is my best guess. Try to market a product to any of the big online distributors with 30% margins and see where that gets you, then ask yourself what margins they are going for on their own product line (at least 50%).
The next question I have for myself is, if they are willing to source barrels from Asia for 5.56, are they doing the same thing for the "6.5 Grendel" AR-Stoner barrels, and just upping the margins to 300% since they know they will fly off the shelf before they can even get them in, regardless if the leade in the chamber is short and definitely not a Grendel chamber?
Does that mean they are automatically crappy barrels? Not at all. Elisco Tool Manufacturing Company of the Philippines has been making M16 barrels and components for decades, originally under license contract from US State Dept./Colt. I'm the type of consumer who likes to know these things, but there is no way Midway is going to unzip the lip about where their AR-Stoner brand barrels and other parts are sourced from.
If anyone doubts that Asian barrels and AR15 parts are in the market, I've seen Dirtier than Cheap openly advertise $99 "M4" barrels in their catalog, and have seen distributor online catalog pages for AR15 parts, including sub-standard uppers, BCG's, LPK's, fasteners, etc. from Taiwan. If you go crack open your upper and look at your BCG, most of your carrier key fasteners will say "YFS" on them, which means the fasteners were manufactured in Taiwan, and are not anywhere near spec for USGI domestic mfg Grade 8 fasteners. With the right assembly procedures and tools, you can still achieve a long-lasting and reliable gas key seal with them, but the threads vary more in dia. towards the smaller side than USGI domestic mfg Grade 8 fasteners.
Same goes for carrier keys and every other part in the AR15. There are precious few AR15's on the market that have anything close to what's in a true Mil-Spec gun as far as materials selection, manufacturing processes, QC'ing and inspecting, and proofing goes.
I guess the thing that bothers me about the AR-Stoner barrels is that they are clearly not using a Grendel reamers based on the measurements several forum members have posted with regard to maximum COL (the leade is shorter), but they still feel that it's ok to advertise them as such, when the Grendel chamber is a SAAMI spec and any huge outfit like Midway can invest in Grendel reamers like the next guy.
The main thing is to be aware of your variant chamber's limitations, and load your COL and charges based on that. I still wish they would just have whatever sweat shop that is cranking these out at least use a Grendel reamer.
I have been reading this post chain and found a couple of things bothering me. I see a lot of assumptions made in the post by LRRPF52 and those assumptions being used as the base for other assumptions. It would seem that this person has a complete knowledge of where everything is made and what companies have for margins on their products. I would like to see more documentation by our poster here to back up what he is saying. But we can see that many others on this thread have already provided evidence of phone calls and cited their sources of information. I see none of that from our LRRPF52, which leads me to believe that he is unreliable in his comments. I now question his other posts as being suspect as well. I would like to see some answers from LRRPF52, responding to questions that some other members have asked him. Well LRRPF52, You up for it?