06-27-2013, 09:55 PM
Trooper Wrote:The average soldier is not going to be trained to do long range shooting. Only the squad designated marksman will get that training. Now the Marines might train every grunt to that standard but the Army will not.
Trooper:
SDM? I ran bunches of courses for 'SDM's between about Y2K through Y2K8. They were issued a M-4 carbine, M-855, and an ACOG until about 2K8. Then you started to see some of the EBR's being issued just before units deployed. In other words, issued when there was not enough time to train them how to do anything with the rifle or optic. And, guess what? The EBRs were considered 500 meter performers. Basically the hit probability with them was the same as a Joe with a carbine and an ACOG. Some of the EBRs were very good to 800 but there was no pattern to any of it. Some shot M-80 way better than 118LR and others shot 118LR exceptionally well but not M-80. Most didn't shoot either any better than a Joe with a carbine and M-855.
And, in order to contend with winds of any challenge you really need a spotter. An SDM is not equipped to dope winds and in his capacity as a SDM supporting squad maneuver, he will have his eyes focused on target ID and interdiction through his scope. If he noticed mirage blowing or perhaps felt or saw something indicating a cross wind, he would give himself a hold and take the shot. Certainly, he was not equipped or capable of doping winds well enough for even a 20% hit probability past about 500. It wouldn't have mattered because most (not all but a good 80%) of the EBRs were incapable of holding a upper torso size target with any of the issued 7.62 past 500 meters. Particularly when they heat up.
Not intending on smoking you or anyone else here. Been through this with more than a few units and the SDM concept and the EBR. It is the reality of things and even more so today as the units tire of perpetual deployments.
The Marines qualify at 500 meters or yards depending on the scale of a KD range at their base. The Army out to 300 on Train Fire. Of the two, most likely the Army is more common sense in terms of reality bit the Marines are certainly far more focused on marksmanship training. Probably because marksmanship is part of their existence as a entity. I harbor no ill will towards them. That is their thing and it is better they try to train Marines how to dope winds for 500 even if it is highly unlikely the majority of Marines will ever be in a position where they can see an enemy that far and actually be in a position and have the time to shoot him with any deliberate intent, than to waste the time of the Marines listening to moronic politically correct lectures on what ever social experiment is in vogue today.
LR1955