How could or should the 6.5 mm Grendel be improved?

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I would disagree completely. We've spent a considerable amount of time making the Grendel better...better bullets, lots of experimentation with powder and primers, comparisons of brass between Lapua, Wolf, and Hornady, etc.

The real issue is trying to hit a target that doesn't really exist. Tell us what your goals are, tell us the parameters, and we'll be more than happy to help improve the Grendel, but you can't do that by telling us what you DON'T want. IE...we don't want a .308 size cartridge, we don't want .308 recoil, etc. You cannot define a standard with negatives.

Define it by saying:

We want MOA accuracy at 400 yards.

We want 800 foot pounds of energy at 1000 yards

We want recoil of 7 pounds or less.

We want 300 rounds of ammo to weigh 27 pounds or less.

(All of these numbers are completely spurious, but make my point. You can't define it on the backside.)

Give us end results and positive goals, and we'll be glad to help. We'll also be glad to say...You can't get there from here! We've told guys that the Grendel isn't really a 1000 yard competition cartridge. We've told guys you can't be competitive in F Class Open with the Grendel, (though I think in 600 yard matches it might be useful.)

But you can't ask us how to improve the Grendel with some nebulous goal. It doesn't work like that.

This. In spades, and to the Nth degree.

I seem to remember a forum member coming into this discussion several years ago suggesting that the Grendel case be slightly lengthened, and case capacity increased, with a slightly larger receiver set to get a little more performance out of it. Remember who that was?


Yeah: ME. After I stopped stabbing in the dark, and ran the numbers, I saw that there was no real benefit to going that route, especially after seeing that the Grendel case can already serve as a basis for pushing those velocities, but again, 200fps is not a significant velocity increase with high BC 6.5 projectiles. Run the numbers on a 16" barrel and a 24" barrel and see how miniscule the downrange performance differences are.

It's also interesting to see that Bill was asked to supply AR15 Grendels with the Wolf 123gr Soft Point, which is one of the worst bullets you could possibly use to demonstrate the capabilities of the 6.5 Grendel, and totally inappropriate for a military demonstration of course.

I wanted a super bolt, and barrel extension too. I wanted a hybrid AR15 with an R25 style upper lockup, but eventually I also had to admit to myself that it just wasn't worth the trouble, and would return very little usefulness.