Military round comparisons
#79
Tony Williams Wrote:The problem is that most of the big purchasers of small arms (especially the USA) have a strong cultural preference for the traditional layout. Apparently mainly because it's traditional.
I'm sure that tradition is a factor. Armies in general -- and the US Army in particular -- tend to be conservative.

However, another very important factor is that, until recently, the available bullpups had significant drawbacks.
Quote:The recent users and developers of bullpups (notably Israel and China) obviously don't care about instant ambidexterity or a variable-length stock (nobody except the US Army seems to regard the latter as a priority). So if the users haven't asked for these features, they won't get them.
Quite true.
Quote:By a "decent bullpup", I meant one which addresses virtually all of the objections that supporters of the traditional layout can come up with.
Yes, I understood that.
Quote:But if you don't need instant ambidexterity and a variable length stock, the Tavor X95 is fine...
But, if the US Army requires those features, then the X95 is not so fine.
Quote:If a general-purpose cartridge is ever adopted, then it is likely to generate more interest in a general-purpose rifle to fire it - compact enough for urban warfare but with good long-range ballistics for open-country fighting. Another new factor emerging is the growth in the use of suppressors (the US Army apparently wants these fitted to just about everything) which add significantly to the overall length of a rifle. These two factors both play to the bullpup's strengths. So it's worth pointing out the advantages of bullpups whenever the subject arises, to keep those involved in mind of their potential for solving various problems.
I would agree (personally, I have long liked the bullpup concept), except that it has not been demonstrated that your "decent bullpup" can actually be made. Which means you are pushing a theoretical concept that may not be achievable in practice, as a preferred "solution" to the traditional design.

If I'm a little annoying on this, it's because I have grown weary of all the theoretical proposals that have been advanced with little or no hard data to support them.
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Messages In This Thread
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 08-23-2012, 10:14 AM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 08-23-2012, 11:16 AM
Military round comparisons - by LR1955 - 08-23-2012, 12:14 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 08-23-2012, 01:24 PM
Military round comparisons - by BluntForceTrauma - 08-24-2012, 02:49 PM
Military round comparisons - by bwaites - 08-24-2012, 03:26 PM
Military round comparisons - by tcte - 08-24-2012, 05:47 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 08-24-2012, 08:06 PM
Military round comparisons - by bwaites - 08-24-2012, 08:57 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 08-24-2012, 10:57 PM
Military round comparisons - by bwaites - 08-24-2012, 11:35 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 08-25-2012, 02:58 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 08-25-2012, 08:10 AM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 08-25-2012, 08:47 AM
Military round comparisons - by Schwag173 - 09-28-2012, 12:42 AM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 09-29-2012, 04:45 PM
Military round comparisons - by Trooper - 12-14-2012, 10:00 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 12-15-2012, 01:21 AM
Military round comparisons - by Schwag173 - 12-15-2012, 04:22 AM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 12-15-2012, 04:10 PM
Military round comparisons - by txgunner00 - 12-15-2012, 05:22 PM
Military round comparisons - by Nukes - 12-15-2012, 11:06 PM
Military round comparisons - by Nukes - 12-15-2012, 11:15 PM
Military round comparisons - by Nukes - 12-15-2012, 11:32 PM
Military round comparisons - by hellcat370 - 12-24-2012, 04:36 PM
Military round comparisons - by rickOshay - 12-24-2012, 05:16 PM
Military round comparisons - by cory - 12-24-2012, 07:05 PM
Military round comparisons - by Nukes - 12-24-2012, 10:17 PM
Military round comparisons - by Variable - 12-24-2012, 11:16 PM
Military round comparisons - by txgunner00 - 12-26-2012, 03:23 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-02-2013, 03:30 AM
Military round comparisons - by coastguardchas - 02-02-2013, 03:54 AM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 02-02-2013, 04:37 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-02-2013, 05:27 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-02-2013, 05:34 PM
Military round comparisons - by Guardsman26 - 02-04-2013, 06:50 PM
Military round comparisons - by bwaites - 02-04-2013, 08:13 PM
Military round comparisons - by KentuckyBuddha - 02-04-2013, 08:38 PM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 02-04-2013, 10:30 PM
Military round comparisons - by Variable - 02-05-2013, 12:51 AM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-05-2013, 04:38 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-05-2013, 05:01 PM
Military round comparisons - by Guardsman26 - 02-05-2013, 05:36 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-05-2013, 06:57 PM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 02-05-2013, 10:57 PM
Military round comparisons - by Nukes - 02-05-2013, 11:57 PM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 02-06-2013, 12:36 AM
Military round comparisons - by BjornF16 - 02-06-2013, 02:00 AM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-06-2013, 02:27 AM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 02-06-2013, 02:32 AM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 02-06-2013, 04:27 AM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-06-2013, 05:10 AM
Military round comparisons - by Variable - 02-06-2013, 06:36 AM
Military round comparisons - by Variable - 02-06-2013, 06:53 AM
Military round comparisons - by Variable - 02-06-2013, 07:11 AM
Military round comparisons - by Kikn - 02-06-2013, 07:13 AM
Military round comparisons - by Von Gruff - 02-06-2013, 07:17 AM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 02-06-2013, 10:14 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-06-2013, 05:49 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-06-2013, 06:00 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-06-2013, 06:20 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-06-2013, 06:28 PM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 02-06-2013, 06:31 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-06-2013, 06:43 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-06-2013, 06:51 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-06-2013, 09:03 PM
Military round comparisons - by Nukes - 02-06-2013, 09:23 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-06-2013, 10:40 PM
Military round comparisons - by BjornF16 - 02-07-2013, 01:22 AM
Military round comparisons - by Nukes - 02-07-2013, 02:52 AM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 02-07-2013, 08:01 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-07-2013, 04:54 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-07-2013, 09:26 PM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 02-08-2013, 04:51 AM
Military round comparisons - by cory - 02-08-2013, 05:11 AM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-08-2013, 05:30 AM
Military round comparisons - by cory - 02-08-2013, 05:55 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-08-2013, 05:48 PM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 02-09-2013, 03:27 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-09-2013, 09:38 PM
Military round comparisons - by Trooper - 02-09-2013, 10:34 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-09-2013, 11:22 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-10-2013, 02:04 AM
Military round comparisons - by Trooper - 02-10-2013, 09:41 PM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 02-10-2013, 09:57 PM
Military round comparisons - by Guardsman26 - 02-10-2013, 10:14 PM
Military round comparisons - by Variable - 02-11-2013, 12:39 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-11-2013, 02:47 AM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 02-11-2013, 03:21 AM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-11-2013, 04:02 AM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 02-11-2013, 10:20 AM
Military round comparisons - by Variable - 02-11-2013, 02:58 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-11-2013, 04:42 PM
Military round comparisons - by Trooper - 02-11-2013, 05:14 PM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 02-11-2013, 05:55 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-11-2013, 06:49 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-11-2013, 08:53 PM
Military round comparisons - by cory - 02-11-2013, 09:23 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-11-2013, 09:40 PM
Military round comparisons - by Trooper - 02-11-2013, 09:45 PM
Military round comparisons - by cory - 02-11-2013, 09:48 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-11-2013, 10:01 PM
Military round comparisons - by cory - 02-11-2013, 10:04 PM
Military round comparisons - by Bill Alexander - 02-11-2013, 10:09 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-11-2013, 10:11 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-11-2013, 10:15 PM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 02-11-2013, 10:17 PM
Military round comparisons - by Trooper - 02-11-2013, 10:34 PM
Military round comparisons - by Nukes - 02-11-2013, 10:35 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-12-2013, 12:28 AM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 02-12-2013, 06:57 AM
Military round comparisons - by Michael - 02-12-2013, 01:47 PM
Military round comparisons - by BjornF16 - 02-12-2013, 11:53 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-13-2013, 02:09 AM
Military round comparisons - by BjornF16 - 02-13-2013, 03:14 AM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 02-13-2013, 05:19 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-17-2013, 08:49 PM
Military round comparisons - by bwaites - 02-17-2013, 09:02 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-17-2013, 10:27 PM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 02-18-2013, 04:42 AM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-18-2013, 04:44 AM
Military round comparisons - by bwaites - 02-18-2013, 05:17 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-18-2013, 05:12 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-18-2013, 05:19 PM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 02-18-2013, 06:05 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-18-2013, 07:25 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-18-2013, 11:15 PM
Military round comparisons - by cory - 02-18-2013, 11:52 PM
Military round comparisons - by Guardsman26 - 02-18-2013, 11:54 PM
Military round comparisons - by woohoo - 05-24-2013, 02:57 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 05-24-2013, 09:13 PM
Military round comparisons - by Trooper - 05-25-2013, 04:46 AM
Military round comparisons - by Trooper - 05-25-2013, 04:59 AM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 05-25-2013, 05:12 AM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 05-25-2013, 12:41 PM
Military round comparisons - by woohoo - 05-25-2013, 02:51 PM
Military round comparisons - by woohoo - 05-25-2013, 03:13 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 05-26-2013, 07:06 PM
Military round comparisons - by SHORT-N-SASSY - 06-17-2013, 08:30 PM
Military round comparisons - by Variable - 06-18-2013, 08:08 AM
Military round comparisons - by SHORT-N-SASSY - 06-18-2013, 10:57 AM
Military round comparisons - by woohoo - 06-19-2013, 02:18 PM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 06-19-2013, 02:24 PM
Military round comparisons - by Variable - 06-20-2013, 01:00 AM
Military round comparisons - by Variable - 06-20-2013, 02:01 AM
Military round comparisons - by SHORT-N-SASSY - 06-20-2013, 04:59 AM
Military round comparisons - by Variable - 06-21-2013, 12:27 AM
Military round comparisons - by SHORT-N-SASSY - 06-25-2013, 06:23 AM
Military round comparisons - by SHORT-N-SASSY - 06-26-2013, 09:57 AM
Military round comparisons - by Michael - 06-26-2013, 01:19 PM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 06-26-2013, 02:17 PM
Military round comparisons - by Michael - 06-26-2013, 03:25 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-26-2013, 03:45 PM
Military round comparisons - by SHORT-N-SASSY - 06-26-2013, 03:50 PM
Military round comparisons - by SHORT-N-SASSY - 06-26-2013, 05:10 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-26-2013, 05:55 PM
Military round comparisons - by bwaites - 06-26-2013, 06:37 PM
Military round comparisons - by SHORT-N-SASSY - 06-26-2013, 07:58 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-26-2013, 09:07 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-26-2013, 09:14 PM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 06-26-2013, 10:31 PM
Military round comparisons - by montana - 06-26-2013, 11:21 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 06-27-2013, 02:34 AM
Military round comparisons - by cory - 06-27-2013, 03:33 AM
Military round comparisons - by montana - 06-27-2013, 03:56 AM
Military round comparisons - by SHORT-N-SASSY - 06-27-2013, 10:12 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-27-2013, 02:37 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-27-2013, 02:53 PM
Military round comparisons - by LR1955 - 06-27-2013, 03:09 PM
Military round comparisons - by Trooper - 06-27-2013, 04:05 PM
Military round comparisons - by Michael - 06-27-2013, 04:24 PM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 06-27-2013, 04:35 PM
Military round comparisons - by Michael - 06-27-2013, 04:41 PM
Military round comparisons - by KentuckyBuddha - 06-27-2013, 06:59 PM
Military round comparisons - by Michael - 06-27-2013, 08:16 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-27-2013, 08:29 PM
Military round comparisons - by cory - 06-27-2013, 09:23 PM
Military round comparisons - by LR1955 - 06-27-2013, 09:55 PM
Military round comparisons - by KentuckyBuddha - 06-27-2013, 10:43 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-27-2013, 11:47 PM
Military round comparisons - by LR1955 - 06-28-2013, 01:15 AM
Military round comparisons - by SHORT-N-SASSY - 06-28-2013, 02:16 AM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 06-28-2013, 02:27 AM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 06-28-2013, 06:57 AM
Military round comparisons - by Trooper - 06-28-2013, 10:34 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-28-2013, 02:42 PM
Military round comparisons - by Trooper - 06-28-2013, 04:14 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-28-2013, 04:16 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-28-2013, 04:23 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-28-2013, 06:46 PM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 06-29-2013, 08:39 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-29-2013, 05:20 PM
Military round comparisons - by Trooper - 06-29-2013, 08:28 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-29-2013, 10:33 PM
Military round comparisons - by Trooper - 06-29-2013, 11:57 PM
Military round comparisons - by SHORT-N-SASSY - 09-20-2013, 05:10 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 09-20-2013, 07:55 PM
Military round comparisons - by SHORT-N-SASSY - 09-20-2013, 09:54 PM
Military round comparisons - by SHORT-N-SASSY - 09-24-2013, 02:40 AM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 10-08-2013, 11:57 PM
Military round comparisons - by pds - 10-09-2013, 02:12 AM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 10-09-2013, 05:35 AM
Military round comparisons - by KentuckyBuddha - 10-09-2013, 06:01 AM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 10-09-2013, 06:29 AM
Military round comparisons - by pds - 10-09-2013, 02:41 PM
Military round comparisons - by frank - 10-09-2013, 04:36 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 10-09-2013, 04:44 PM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 10-12-2013, 02:13 AM
Military round comparisons - by KentuckyBuddha - 10-12-2013, 03:01 AM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 10-12-2013, 03:25 PM
Military round comparisons - by montana - 10-12-2013, 04:19 PM
Military round comparisons - by KentuckyBuddha - 10-12-2013, 04:38 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 10-12-2013, 10:35 PM
Military round comparisons - by montana - 10-12-2013, 11:08 PM
Military round comparisons - by KentuckyBuddha - 10-13-2013, 12:58 AM
Military round comparisons - by montana - 10-13-2013, 02:18 AM
Military round comparisons - by hm2 clark - 10-13-2013, 02:22 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 10-13-2013, 02:23 AM
Military round comparisons - by NugginFutz - 10-13-2013, 03:40 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 10-13-2013, 05:18 AM
Military round comparisons - by ricsmall - 08-23-2012, 02:50 PM

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