Military round comparisons
#42
Quote:The bullet, which has an ideal form factor, is very long - but you really wouldn't want to change that. What we really need is increased powder capacity to give it a little extra energy and thus retained energy at long range - especially when fired from short-barrel weapons - and better short-range terminal effectiveness, including barrier defeat. In other words, what the Grendel really needs is a slightly larger case - something in between the current 11.3 x 39 mm and the 6.5 mm x 47 Lapua brass.

Welcome. We've kicked this horse before many times. Actually, the Grendel case capacity isn't really a limiting factor as much as the AR15 bolt is, but it helps keep the pressure at a level that increases longevity of the throat & barrel over 7.62x51 weapons, which have an excellent barrel life.

As far as logistics goes, we already have several different loadings for the 5.56 weapons, to include:

M193 (mostly phased out, but an excellent loading for CQB to 200m)
M855 (for the SAW, then M16A2)
Mk 262 & variants for DM's
M855A1

That's not even addressing the 7.62 variants in the US system. I personally believe the M855A1 will serve more as a way to break us economically, despite the claimed improvements in performance. The best cartridge you can possibly ever have is the one that you can train with the most.

Back to the Grendel's case capacity. It will take way more pressure than the AR15 bolt will, so there is plenty of capacity. For a military weapon that is designed to take more pressure if you really felt you needed it, you could use a bolt with more mass to it, and more bearing surfaces on the locking lugs. I used to think something like that would be worth pursuing as a solution, but the problem really doesn't exist.

I don't want every swinging Richard with a 130gr hot load, doing its best to reach 7.62 recoil impulse. Carbines should track well on-target, and 5.56 provides that in spades. A purpose-designed powder for a light 6.5 load for carbines, maybe pushing even an 85gr-95gr bullet at 2800fps would be more than adequate for Joe Tentpeg's consumption, but I'm perfectly happy with keeping 5.56 in carbines.

LMG's and DMR's are where we need the Grendel, so we could phase out 7.62 NATO for dismounts.
Reply


Messages In This Thread
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 08-23-2012, 10:14 AM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 08-23-2012, 11:16 AM
Military round comparisons - by LR1955 - 08-23-2012, 12:14 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 08-23-2012, 01:24 PM
Military round comparisons - by BluntForceTrauma - 08-24-2012, 02:49 PM
Military round comparisons - by bwaites - 08-24-2012, 03:26 PM
Military round comparisons - by tcte - 08-24-2012, 05:47 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 08-24-2012, 08:06 PM
Military round comparisons - by bwaites - 08-24-2012, 08:57 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 08-24-2012, 10:57 PM
Military round comparisons - by bwaites - 08-24-2012, 11:35 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 08-25-2012, 02:58 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 08-25-2012, 08:10 AM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 08-25-2012, 08:47 AM
Military round comparisons - by Schwag173 - 09-28-2012, 12:42 AM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 09-29-2012, 04:45 PM
Military round comparisons - by Trooper - 12-14-2012, 10:00 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 12-15-2012, 01:21 AM
Military round comparisons - by Schwag173 - 12-15-2012, 04:22 AM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 12-15-2012, 04:10 PM
Military round comparisons - by txgunner00 - 12-15-2012, 05:22 PM
Military round comparisons - by Nukes - 12-15-2012, 11:06 PM
Military round comparisons - by Nukes - 12-15-2012, 11:15 PM
Military round comparisons - by Nukes - 12-15-2012, 11:32 PM
Military round comparisons - by hellcat370 - 12-24-2012, 04:36 PM
Military round comparisons - by rickOshay - 12-24-2012, 05:16 PM
Military round comparisons - by cory - 12-24-2012, 07:05 PM
Military round comparisons - by Nukes - 12-24-2012, 10:17 PM
Military round comparisons - by Variable - 12-24-2012, 11:16 PM
Military round comparisons - by txgunner00 - 12-26-2012, 03:23 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-02-2013, 03:30 AM
Military round comparisons - by coastguardchas - 02-02-2013, 03:54 AM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 02-02-2013, 04:37 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-02-2013, 05:27 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-02-2013, 05:34 PM
Military round comparisons - by Guardsman26 - 02-04-2013, 06:50 PM
Military round comparisons - by bwaites - 02-04-2013, 08:13 PM
Military round comparisons - by KentuckyBuddha - 02-04-2013, 08:38 PM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 02-04-2013, 10:30 PM
Military round comparisons - by Variable - 02-05-2013, 12:51 AM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-05-2013, 04:38 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-05-2013, 05:01 PM
Military round comparisons - by Guardsman26 - 02-05-2013, 05:36 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-05-2013, 06:57 PM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 02-05-2013, 10:57 PM
Military round comparisons - by Nukes - 02-05-2013, 11:57 PM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 02-06-2013, 12:36 AM
Military round comparisons - by BjornF16 - 02-06-2013, 02:00 AM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-06-2013, 02:27 AM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 02-06-2013, 02:32 AM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 02-06-2013, 04:27 AM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-06-2013, 05:10 AM
Military round comparisons - by Variable - 02-06-2013, 06:36 AM
Military round comparisons - by Variable - 02-06-2013, 06:53 AM
Military round comparisons - by Variable - 02-06-2013, 07:11 AM
Military round comparisons - by Kikn - 02-06-2013, 07:13 AM
Military round comparisons - by Von Gruff - 02-06-2013, 07:17 AM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 02-06-2013, 10:14 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-06-2013, 05:49 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-06-2013, 06:00 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-06-2013, 06:20 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-06-2013, 06:28 PM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 02-06-2013, 06:31 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-06-2013, 06:43 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-06-2013, 06:51 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-06-2013, 09:03 PM
Military round comparisons - by Nukes - 02-06-2013, 09:23 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-06-2013, 10:40 PM
Military round comparisons - by BjornF16 - 02-07-2013, 01:22 AM
Military round comparisons - by Nukes - 02-07-2013, 02:52 AM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 02-07-2013, 08:01 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-07-2013, 04:54 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-07-2013, 09:26 PM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 02-08-2013, 04:51 AM
Military round comparisons - by cory - 02-08-2013, 05:11 AM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-08-2013, 05:30 AM
Military round comparisons - by cory - 02-08-2013, 05:55 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-08-2013, 05:48 PM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 02-09-2013, 03:27 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-09-2013, 09:38 PM
Military round comparisons - by Trooper - 02-09-2013, 10:34 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-09-2013, 11:22 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-10-2013, 02:04 AM
Military round comparisons - by Trooper - 02-10-2013, 09:41 PM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 02-10-2013, 09:57 PM
Military round comparisons - by Guardsman26 - 02-10-2013, 10:14 PM
Military round comparisons - by Variable - 02-11-2013, 12:39 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-11-2013, 02:47 AM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 02-11-2013, 03:21 AM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-11-2013, 04:02 AM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 02-11-2013, 10:20 AM
Military round comparisons - by Variable - 02-11-2013, 02:58 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-11-2013, 04:42 PM
Military round comparisons - by Trooper - 02-11-2013, 05:14 PM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 02-11-2013, 05:55 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-11-2013, 06:49 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-11-2013, 08:53 PM
Military round comparisons - by cory - 02-11-2013, 09:23 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-11-2013, 09:40 PM
Military round comparisons - by Trooper - 02-11-2013, 09:45 PM
Military round comparisons - by cory - 02-11-2013, 09:48 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-11-2013, 10:01 PM
Military round comparisons - by cory - 02-11-2013, 10:04 PM
Military round comparisons - by Bill Alexander - 02-11-2013, 10:09 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-11-2013, 10:11 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-11-2013, 10:15 PM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 02-11-2013, 10:17 PM
Military round comparisons - by Trooper - 02-11-2013, 10:34 PM
Military round comparisons - by Nukes - 02-11-2013, 10:35 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-12-2013, 12:28 AM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 02-12-2013, 06:57 AM
Military round comparisons - by Michael - 02-12-2013, 01:47 PM
Military round comparisons - by BjornF16 - 02-12-2013, 11:53 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-13-2013, 02:09 AM
Military round comparisons - by BjornF16 - 02-13-2013, 03:14 AM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 02-13-2013, 05:19 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-17-2013, 08:49 PM
Military round comparisons - by bwaites - 02-17-2013, 09:02 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-17-2013, 10:27 PM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 02-18-2013, 04:42 AM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-18-2013, 04:44 AM
Military round comparisons - by bwaites - 02-18-2013, 05:17 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-18-2013, 05:12 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-18-2013, 05:19 PM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 02-18-2013, 06:05 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 02-18-2013, 07:25 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 02-18-2013, 11:15 PM
Military round comparisons - by cory - 02-18-2013, 11:52 PM
Military round comparisons - by Guardsman26 - 02-18-2013, 11:54 PM
Military round comparisons - by woohoo - 05-24-2013, 02:57 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 05-24-2013, 09:13 PM
Military round comparisons - by Trooper - 05-25-2013, 04:46 AM
Military round comparisons - by Trooper - 05-25-2013, 04:59 AM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 05-25-2013, 05:12 AM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 05-25-2013, 12:41 PM
Military round comparisons - by woohoo - 05-25-2013, 02:51 PM
Military round comparisons - by woohoo - 05-25-2013, 03:13 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 05-26-2013, 07:06 PM
Military round comparisons - by SHORT-N-SASSY - 06-17-2013, 08:30 PM
Military round comparisons - by Variable - 06-18-2013, 08:08 AM
Military round comparisons - by SHORT-N-SASSY - 06-18-2013, 10:57 AM
Military round comparisons - by woohoo - 06-19-2013, 02:18 PM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 06-19-2013, 02:24 PM
Military round comparisons - by Variable - 06-20-2013, 01:00 AM
Military round comparisons - by Variable - 06-20-2013, 02:01 AM
Military round comparisons - by SHORT-N-SASSY - 06-20-2013, 04:59 AM
Military round comparisons - by Variable - 06-21-2013, 12:27 AM
Military round comparisons - by SHORT-N-SASSY - 06-25-2013, 06:23 AM
Military round comparisons - by SHORT-N-SASSY - 06-26-2013, 09:57 AM
Military round comparisons - by Michael - 06-26-2013, 01:19 PM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 06-26-2013, 02:17 PM
Military round comparisons - by Michael - 06-26-2013, 03:25 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-26-2013, 03:45 PM
Military round comparisons - by SHORT-N-SASSY - 06-26-2013, 03:50 PM
Military round comparisons - by SHORT-N-SASSY - 06-26-2013, 05:10 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-26-2013, 05:55 PM
Military round comparisons - by bwaites - 06-26-2013, 06:37 PM
Military round comparisons - by SHORT-N-SASSY - 06-26-2013, 07:58 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-26-2013, 09:07 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-26-2013, 09:14 PM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 06-26-2013, 10:31 PM
Military round comparisons - by montana - 06-26-2013, 11:21 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 06-27-2013, 02:34 AM
Military round comparisons - by cory - 06-27-2013, 03:33 AM
Military round comparisons - by montana - 06-27-2013, 03:56 AM
Military round comparisons - by SHORT-N-SASSY - 06-27-2013, 10:12 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-27-2013, 02:37 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-27-2013, 02:53 PM
Military round comparisons - by LR1955 - 06-27-2013, 03:09 PM
Military round comparisons - by Trooper - 06-27-2013, 04:05 PM
Military round comparisons - by Michael - 06-27-2013, 04:24 PM
Military round comparisons - by JASmith - 06-27-2013, 04:35 PM
Military round comparisons - by Michael - 06-27-2013, 04:41 PM
Military round comparisons - by KentuckyBuddha - 06-27-2013, 06:59 PM
Military round comparisons - by Michael - 06-27-2013, 08:16 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-27-2013, 08:29 PM
Military round comparisons - by cory - 06-27-2013, 09:23 PM
Military round comparisons - by LR1955 - 06-27-2013, 09:55 PM
Military round comparisons - by KentuckyBuddha - 06-27-2013, 10:43 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-27-2013, 11:47 PM
Military round comparisons - by LR1955 - 06-28-2013, 01:15 AM
Military round comparisons - by SHORT-N-SASSY - 06-28-2013, 02:16 AM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 06-28-2013, 02:27 AM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 06-28-2013, 06:57 AM
Military round comparisons - by Trooper - 06-28-2013, 10:34 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-28-2013, 02:42 PM
Military round comparisons - by Trooper - 06-28-2013, 04:14 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-28-2013, 04:16 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-28-2013, 04:23 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-28-2013, 06:46 PM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 06-29-2013, 08:39 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-29-2013, 05:20 PM
Military round comparisons - by Trooper - 06-29-2013, 08:28 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 06-29-2013, 10:33 PM
Military round comparisons - by Trooper - 06-29-2013, 11:57 PM
Military round comparisons - by SHORT-N-SASSY - 09-20-2013, 05:10 PM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 09-20-2013, 07:55 PM
Military round comparisons - by SHORT-N-SASSY - 09-20-2013, 09:54 PM
Military round comparisons - by SHORT-N-SASSY - 09-24-2013, 02:40 AM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 10-08-2013, 11:57 PM
Military round comparisons - by pds - 10-09-2013, 02:12 AM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 10-09-2013, 05:35 AM
Military round comparisons - by KentuckyBuddha - 10-09-2013, 06:01 AM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 10-09-2013, 06:29 AM
Military round comparisons - by pds - 10-09-2013, 02:41 PM
Military round comparisons - by frank - 10-09-2013, 04:36 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 10-09-2013, 04:44 PM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 10-12-2013, 02:13 AM
Military round comparisons - by KentuckyBuddha - 10-12-2013, 03:01 AM
Military round comparisons - by Tony Williams - 10-12-2013, 03:25 PM
Military round comparisons - by montana - 10-12-2013, 04:19 PM
Military round comparisons - by KentuckyBuddha - 10-12-2013, 04:38 PM
Military round comparisons - by LRRPF52 - 10-12-2013, 10:35 PM
Military round comparisons - by montana - 10-12-2013, 11:08 PM
Military round comparisons - by KentuckyBuddha - 10-13-2013, 12:58 AM
Military round comparisons - by montana - 10-13-2013, 02:18 AM
Military round comparisons - by hm2 clark - 10-13-2013, 02:22 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 10-13-2013, 02:23 AM
Military round comparisons - by NugginFutz - 10-13-2013, 03:40 AM
Military round comparisons - by stanc - 10-13-2013, 05:18 AM
Military round comparisons - by ricsmall - 08-23-2012, 02:50 PM

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)