01-21-2013, 07:57 PM
The Demise of Loki Weapon Systems, the True Story From the Gunsmith who subcontracted for them.
In the summer of 2009 we entered into a contract with a weapons company to design and build them rifles. They were
to pay us 280,000 dollars for the work. We designed the weapon and began manufacturing them. When we approached the
company for the money they refused to take our calls. Soon after we received a cease and desist order on building
the rifles from the companies attorney stating that we had stole their design. They shut down our machine shops
production through threats of legal recourse against them. When we went to court against them they had the blueprints
to the rifles with them showing that they had designed it not us. It wasn't until later we had discovered that they
had hired someone to hack our network and steal the blue prints from us. Unfortunately for the company they were not
very brilliant and failed to remove the drafters mark from the blueprint, the drafter whom we paid and had worked
with for the past year in the design stages of the rifle. When the Drafter brought this to light in front of the
court, the Judge Immediately turned the case around and told the owner of Loki that he needed to be suing the other
company for theft not the other way around. We thought we had won and everything would go back to normal but it didn't.
Almost immediately after that we started having surprise visits from the ATF, harassing us and nitpicking anything
they could get us on. They lied to us, mislead us, broke several laws and protocols regarding proper search and seizure
of an FFL holder including more than one unannounced visit a year. When they couldn't find anything as we were law abiding
people just trying to make a living, the ATF agent began a Rogue, grey area, vague line of questioning to which
it was very hard to understand exactly what he was asking. The owner of Loki answered the questions to the best of
his ability instead of asking to have his lawyer present which he should have done but was simply just trying to
comply with the agent as he had nothing to hide. The Agent talked him into a corner to which he eventually misunderstood
what was being asked of him and his answer was perceived as a lie. As soon as he realized what was being asked he recanted
his statement explaining he had misunderstood the question to which the Agent replied ah ha so you lied to a Federal Agent!
He then left and began building a case against us based on a "lie" that was said during the illegal and unwarranted questioning.
Confounded as to why they were going out of their way to seemingly put us out of business we did some investigating
of our own. What we found is that our Agent graduated from the same school, in the same town, in the same year, as the owner
of the company we were currently fighting against in court. It all made sense at that point and when we made inquiry
into this with the ATF they pulled the Agent and replaced him with another. Unfortunately this didn't stop the damage
that was already done as the ATF would not pull the case against us, probably out of fear that we would sue them for
harassment and illegal surveillance/ search and seizure of documents. We continued on however through 2010, 2011, and into 2012
where we finally had begun to make money after all our set backs and began expanding both production and design. The Lawsuit
against the theft of our design eventually ended up a draw as They could not beat us yet if we sued them we would
have to turn over the design to them. Seeing as how we were currently using the design and that the company was broke
and couldn't pay us anything both parties dropped the case. However up to this point we had fought and lost our case with the ATF
twice as the ATF fights their cases in a DOJ court basically guaranteeing their victory. It cost thousands of
dollars to re-appeal your case each time. On the third appeal you have the option to go to a supreme court. We were certain we
win at this point as their case against us was petty and unsubstantial. However I received a phone call on thanksgiving
informing me that we had lost the case and that I was out of a job. I couldn't understand why as we were so close
to beating this. As it turns out our lead manufacturer had been in financial trouble for awhile and hadn't informed us that they were
going bankrupt along with thousands of dollars worth of parts we had ordered and desperately needed. The ATF requires that
they sign off on any new manufacturer cutting your parts, a process that takes upwards of 6 to 9 months. On top of that before
they would approve anything we would have to pay the thousands of dollars to re-appeal our case. That means not only would we
be without parts to sell for nearly a year but that we were not going to receive the parts we already ordered to cover our current
builds, and we would be paying every dime we had in legal fees to fight the ATF. It was a gamble that in the end the owner chose
to keep the money that he had and refund as many customers as possible rather than pay the ATF and most likely lose even more. He
was given 30 days to transfer or destroy all remaining receivers/ suppressors/ full autos and surrender his license and books,
and vacate the premises. Nobody came out good in this situation. I personally was living out of my truck on canned beans till I
could find another job as I had not seen this coming. There is fault in many areas of this situation but frankly to me its
just another case of the federal government Nickle and diming a small business into the grave with mafia style tactics. I feel
for anyone who lost money in this as I lost probably more than anyone as I had devoted two years of my life to building this
company up into what I hoped would someday be a prominent manufacturer. I felt I needed to explain as much as I legally could
in regards to this situation so that light and understanding could be brought in. Although I no longer have any contact with
the owner I can tell you that he was devastated by this and in no way expected this to happen or tried to con anyone.
He didn't walk away from this a rich man, he paid back as many people as he could with what he had. Unfortunately this is just
the way it goes sometimes.
In the summer of 2009 we entered into a contract with a weapons company to design and build them rifles. They were
to pay us 280,000 dollars for the work. We designed the weapon and began manufacturing them. When we approached the
company for the money they refused to take our calls. Soon after we received a cease and desist order on building
the rifles from the companies attorney stating that we had stole their design. They shut down our machine shops
production through threats of legal recourse against them. When we went to court against them they had the blueprints
to the rifles with them showing that they had designed it not us. It wasn't until later we had discovered that they
had hired someone to hack our network and steal the blue prints from us. Unfortunately for the company they were not
very brilliant and failed to remove the drafters mark from the blueprint, the drafter whom we paid and had worked
with for the past year in the design stages of the rifle. When the Drafter brought this to light in front of the
court, the Judge Immediately turned the case around and told the owner of Loki that he needed to be suing the other
company for theft not the other way around. We thought we had won and everything would go back to normal but it didn't.
Almost immediately after that we started having surprise visits from the ATF, harassing us and nitpicking anything
they could get us on. They lied to us, mislead us, broke several laws and protocols regarding proper search and seizure
of an FFL holder including more than one unannounced visit a year. When they couldn't find anything as we were law abiding
people just trying to make a living, the ATF agent began a Rogue, grey area, vague line of questioning to which
it was very hard to understand exactly what he was asking. The owner of Loki answered the questions to the best of
his ability instead of asking to have his lawyer present which he should have done but was simply just trying to
comply with the agent as he had nothing to hide. The Agent talked him into a corner to which he eventually misunderstood
what was being asked of him and his answer was perceived as a lie. As soon as he realized what was being asked he recanted
his statement explaining he had misunderstood the question to which the Agent replied ah ha so you lied to a Federal Agent!
He then left and began building a case against us based on a "lie" that was said during the illegal and unwarranted questioning.
Confounded as to why they were going out of their way to seemingly put us out of business we did some investigating
of our own. What we found is that our Agent graduated from the same school, in the same town, in the same year, as the owner
of the company we were currently fighting against in court. It all made sense at that point and when we made inquiry
into this with the ATF they pulled the Agent and replaced him with another. Unfortunately this didn't stop the damage
that was already done as the ATF would not pull the case against us, probably out of fear that we would sue them for
harassment and illegal surveillance/ search and seizure of documents. We continued on however through 2010, 2011, and into 2012
where we finally had begun to make money after all our set backs and began expanding both production and design. The Lawsuit
against the theft of our design eventually ended up a draw as They could not beat us yet if we sued them we would
have to turn over the design to them. Seeing as how we were currently using the design and that the company was broke
and couldn't pay us anything both parties dropped the case. However up to this point we had fought and lost our case with the ATF
twice as the ATF fights their cases in a DOJ court basically guaranteeing their victory. It cost thousands of
dollars to re-appeal your case each time. On the third appeal you have the option to go to a supreme court. We were certain we
win at this point as their case against us was petty and unsubstantial. However I received a phone call on thanksgiving
informing me that we had lost the case and that I was out of a job. I couldn't understand why as we were so close
to beating this. As it turns out our lead manufacturer had been in financial trouble for awhile and hadn't informed us that they were
going bankrupt along with thousands of dollars worth of parts we had ordered and desperately needed. The ATF requires that
they sign off on any new manufacturer cutting your parts, a process that takes upwards of 6 to 9 months. On top of that before
they would approve anything we would have to pay the thousands of dollars to re-appeal our case. That means not only would we
be without parts to sell for nearly a year but that we were not going to receive the parts we already ordered to cover our current
builds, and we would be paying every dime we had in legal fees to fight the ATF. It was a gamble that in the end the owner chose
to keep the money that he had and refund as many customers as possible rather than pay the ATF and most likely lose even more. He
was given 30 days to transfer or destroy all remaining receivers/ suppressors/ full autos and surrender his license and books,
and vacate the premises. Nobody came out good in this situation. I personally was living out of my truck on canned beans till I
could find another job as I had not seen this coming. There is fault in many areas of this situation but frankly to me its
just another case of the federal government Nickle and diming a small business into the grave with mafia style tactics. I feel
for anyone who lost money in this as I lost probably more than anyone as I had devoted two years of my life to building this
company up into what I hoped would someday be a prominent manufacturer. I felt I needed to explain as much as I legally could
in regards to this situation so that light and understanding could be brought in. Although I no longer have any contact with
the owner I can tell you that he was devastated by this and in no way expected this to happen or tried to con anyone.
He didn't walk away from this a rich man, he paid back as many people as he could with what he had. Unfortunately this is just
the way it goes sometimes.