02-14-2012, 01:20 PM
vfrdrvr: Here's what Bill A. posted in another thread:
As stated by Bill A. there is a difference and I don't understand why people keep trying to defend other chambers by saying they are the same.
They are not the same.
Whether the differences are consequential or not has never been the question but when a buyer, especially a new to the Grendel buyer wants a Grendel, calling other things a Grendel isn't ethical.
Some of these buyers may be very inexperienced shooter who end up having problems, like when the Hornady ammo came out, and don't know why.
They can get frustrated or worse injured and end up blaming the Grendel and Bill A. when the blame rests elsewhere.
I think it's especially hurtful and dishonest when a buyer( see Cbubac's posts above) thinks they are getting the SAAMI spec. chamber and they end up with something else.
They should just be truthful and say they are trying to benefit from someone elses work and be honest with their customers.
I'm glad that all this stuff other than the headspacing( and this is a pretty consequential issue especially for buyers that don't reload) is inconsequential to you but you aren't the only buyer and it is important to others and they have the right to get honest information.
The headspacing issue has been causing problems for people who post here and on the older forum for years and it never should have been an issue for anyone if the Grendel chamber had been used or if the variations had been fully explained so people would know what they are getting instead of being told it is the same( as in identical which it isn't).
All this being said, Good luck with your shooting and it's good to have you here.
Lee
Quote:There have been a number of variations on chamber supposed to "improve" the Grendel. Most notable is the LBC which is particularly amusing as it was a design tested in prototyping and then dumped, that the reamer maker just regurgitated. The typical improvement may prove fruitful for the individual but it may also create frustration. Loading data may or may not be applicable. The Grendel chamber proper was set up to allow it to be easy to achieve good accuracy in bulk production with only a little attention to the details. It is tolerant to both long ogive target bullets, short flat base varmint loads and long but blunter hunting loadings. The typical set up with a half decent barrel will usually outshoot its owner.
As to case life this seems to be another internet rumor. Unless the shooter uses an appropriate bushing type die set, 0.005" on diameter or 0.003" will have no effect at all. The sizing die will move the brass way beyond this both below and then back up as the sizing button passes. What the "tight" neck does without adequate insight is to relocate the origin for the shoulder/neck radius to a possible bind condition as the various manufacturers produce differing batches.
Quote:The neck diameter has a negliable effect on brass life in this instance. I doubt you will be able to quantify it. Conversely the lack of singularity for the 0.295" neck has proven problematic.
Quote:The 0.295"/0.300" neck shift itself is negliable for either function or brass life, but it does shift the transition radius for the neck to shoulder junction inwards. This stacks against the matching radius on the brass and depending upon how the shift is made on the reamer print the two can collide. This is magnified if for example you have no clue about the brass dimensions and tolerances so the transition radius cannot be matched up correctly. A more insidious problem with the 0.295" neck rests not with diameter but neck length. In the rush to prove superiority individuals shortened the neck length as well as adjusting diameter with different brass falling to differing tolerances it was not unusual to see rounds headspaced on the case mouth. My general opinion of the 0.295" neck is that it is an uneccesary adjustment that has proven to be uncontrolled in many other aspects.
Anyone who is determined to shoot lacquered steel case in a tighter neck chamber is welcome to do so. It will generally fit but may or may not have the clearance to release the bullet. Let me know how this works out for you and remember when your rifle errupts in a clouds of broken parts you have no recourse except getting laughed at. I would advise that the steel case is tested and designed for the Grendel chamber and my initial observation is that the 0.300" throat is well suited to this form of construction.
As stated by Bill A. there is a difference and I don't understand why people keep trying to defend other chambers by saying they are the same.
They are not the same.
Whether the differences are consequential or not has never been the question but when a buyer, especially a new to the Grendel buyer wants a Grendel, calling other things a Grendel isn't ethical.
Some of these buyers may be very inexperienced shooter who end up having problems, like when the Hornady ammo came out, and don't know why.
They can get frustrated or worse injured and end up blaming the Grendel and Bill A. when the blame rests elsewhere.
I think it's especially hurtful and dishonest when a buyer( see Cbubac's posts above) thinks they are getting the SAAMI spec. chamber and they end up with something else.
They should just be truthful and say they are trying to benefit from someone elses work and be honest with their customers.
I'm glad that all this stuff other than the headspacing( and this is a pretty consequential issue especially for buyers that don't reload) is inconsequential to you but you aren't the only buyer and it is important to others and they have the right to get honest information.
The headspacing issue has been causing problems for people who post here and on the older forum for years and it never should have been an issue for anyone if the Grendel chamber had been used or if the variations had been fully explained so people would know what they are getting instead of being told it is the same( as in identical which it isn't).
All this being said, Good luck with your shooting and it's good to have you here.
Lee