05-17-2019, 05:25 PM
I've evolved with my thinking on Max Effective Range to be more of a factor of:
* Shooter experience shooting at distances where elevation and windage adjustments/holds are necessary
* Type of optic used relative to the user-friendliness for doing above
* Higher BC projectiles
* Lower recoil/ease of sight picture tracking during follow-through
The cartridge can be fudged around with the above parameters having more importance, as long as you still have penetration at distance.
I find that from alternate positions on any given day, including combat kneeling, hasty seated with quick adjust 2-point sling, I can hit 18" sils at 400yds repeatedly with a 14.5"-18" .224 Wylde SPR or Recce set-up with a good optic.
With 6.5 Grendel in the same carbine or rifle configurations with the exact same optics, that effective range pushes out a little more due to the superior wind drift, and you can actually see the effects on-target without having to guess whether you got a hit or not in the wind.
Transitioning into a more supported position for a DM or Sniper blocking/overwatch position, my effective range and hit probability go up significantly over the 77gr Mk.262 Match, but the 5.56 is easier to track the sight picture, although not significantly so.
Based on what I've seen over the years running many different open and closed courses with the DM or Sniper marksmanship training set, multiple active duty US Army and USMC Sniper Instructors who have spent a lot of time with the 6.5 Grendel all independently concluded that if we had 6.5 Grendel AR15s as the staple rifle for those types of courses, the results would be:
* Ease of learning to shoot long range would be superior to 7.62 NATO and the M118LR from SR25s/M110s (with 7.62 NATO, a new shooters is very reliant on spotter feedback)
* Positional shooting is a lot easier and results in higher hit counts,
* 1st-round hits are higher probability at distance,
* Shooter feedback is immediate since the sights don't come off TGT like with 175gr SMK M118LR
* The wind drift is better with the tighter twist rates of 6.5 bores and higher average BCs
* The lower working pressure provides longer barrel life and in-house armorers and instructors even can do rebuild work much easier
* You can gain more performance in the stress shoot stages since you're no longer lugging around a huge SR25 platform
The thing that is interesting to me is that these guys have approached me organically in chance meetings at different competitions and events, not knowing my background with 6.5 Grendel and then proceed to make my arguments to me without any prompt. It validates a lot of what I've been thinking over the years about the cartridge from the Sniper and DM perspective thinking that it would make an excellent addition to the arms room approach for units that have that flexibility and freedom.
For a standard rifleman cartridge, it would make sense in theaters like OEF and OIR where you have a lot of open spaces and distance, with a good intuitive combat optic to match the basic ballistic profile, but there are other weapons in a Platoon that also cover those distances well, and we're getting more and more ISR/Combat Drone support organic to dismounted units.
Back to the point of the thread though. Max effective range is highly dependent on shooter skill/experience matched with a good optic.
After that, we need to determine what we want the projectile to do once it connects.
* Shooter experience shooting at distances where elevation and windage adjustments/holds are necessary
* Type of optic used relative to the user-friendliness for doing above
* Higher BC projectiles
* Lower recoil/ease of sight picture tracking during follow-through
The cartridge can be fudged around with the above parameters having more importance, as long as you still have penetration at distance.
I find that from alternate positions on any given day, including combat kneeling, hasty seated with quick adjust 2-point sling, I can hit 18" sils at 400yds repeatedly with a 14.5"-18" .224 Wylde SPR or Recce set-up with a good optic.
With 6.5 Grendel in the same carbine or rifle configurations with the exact same optics, that effective range pushes out a little more due to the superior wind drift, and you can actually see the effects on-target without having to guess whether you got a hit or not in the wind.
Transitioning into a more supported position for a DM or Sniper blocking/overwatch position, my effective range and hit probability go up significantly over the 77gr Mk.262 Match, but the 5.56 is easier to track the sight picture, although not significantly so.
Based on what I've seen over the years running many different open and closed courses with the DM or Sniper marksmanship training set, multiple active duty US Army and USMC Sniper Instructors who have spent a lot of time with the 6.5 Grendel all independently concluded that if we had 6.5 Grendel AR15s as the staple rifle for those types of courses, the results would be:
* Ease of learning to shoot long range would be superior to 7.62 NATO and the M118LR from SR25s/M110s (with 7.62 NATO, a new shooters is very reliant on spotter feedback)
* Positional shooting is a lot easier and results in higher hit counts,
* 1st-round hits are higher probability at distance,
* Shooter feedback is immediate since the sights don't come off TGT like with 175gr SMK M118LR
* The wind drift is better with the tighter twist rates of 6.5 bores and higher average BCs
* The lower working pressure provides longer barrel life and in-house armorers and instructors even can do rebuild work much easier
* You can gain more performance in the stress shoot stages since you're no longer lugging around a huge SR25 platform
The thing that is interesting to me is that these guys have approached me organically in chance meetings at different competitions and events, not knowing my background with 6.5 Grendel and then proceed to make my arguments to me without any prompt. It validates a lot of what I've been thinking over the years about the cartridge from the Sniper and DM perspective thinking that it would make an excellent addition to the arms room approach for units that have that flexibility and freedom.
For a standard rifleman cartridge, it would make sense in theaters like OEF and OIR where you have a lot of open spaces and distance, with a good intuitive combat optic to match the basic ballistic profile, but there are other weapons in a Platoon that also cover those distances well, and we're getting more and more ISR/Combat Drone support organic to dismounted units.
Back to the point of the thread though. Max effective range is highly dependent on shooter skill/experience matched with a good optic.
After that, we need to determine what we want the projectile to do once it connects.
NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO
CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor
6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:
www.AR15buildbox.com
CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor
6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:
www.AR15buildbox.com