Florida has started Confication..Good!

[montana]

With what do you disagree?
Does the Second Amendment state that it is meant to counter government power?
Does the Second Amendment note any purpose for militias other than state security?
Doesn't the Constitution provide for calling out the militia to suppress insurrections?
Does either the Constitution or the Second Amendment say anything about using the militia to conduct insurrections?
If the Second Amendment was not meant to ensure that military small arms would be available to members of organized State militias, why does it have the militia clause?

We have hashed this over too many times already. I believe what the founders intent and meaning of the 2ndA by what they wrote in the Federalist papers and other periodicals of the time of the creation of our government and you dont. That is why we will agree to disagree.

Intelligent design versus atheism is not relevant to the discussion. The issue is the unsubstantiated claim that rights come from God.


Correction: That's what they said in a propaganda statement meant to try to ward off other European monarchies from allying with the British king in his effort to quell the American rebellion.

What the Founders actually believed was: that they had the right to invade a continent populated by other people, and kill any who resisted the invasion, depriving them of the supposed right to life; that they had the right to own, buy, and sell black people, depriving them of the supposed right to liberty; that white women were not intellectually equal to white men, as women were denied the right to vote in all states but one.

Wow, where to begin lol. They stated our rights are given to us by our creator, not men. How this is an unsubstantiated claim that our rights don't come from God, well I guess you lost me on that conclusion. The fact you believe it was not a truth they believed in and was only a propaganda statement for diplomatic purposes is your opinion and a doozy at that. We will have to agree to disagree on that one too LOL.
Slavery was a very heated and debated subject back then which was settled during the civil war, even though it was not the only or main reason for it. There were whites put into slavery too under indentured servitude. Hell,even the Irish and Catholics were treated as sub human by many. Many Indian tribes, freed blacks had slaves, abused women, practiced torture, rape and even cannibalism. This is another topic not suitable for this forum, but you are correct when all people were not included with those God given rights when our nation was founded. Not all Americans treated women, blacks or Indians as lessor people. As today, our government does not always treat people as equals, which violates the very basics of the Constitution. This does not lesson the "belief" in it's meaning or merit IMO.

Yeah. They said those were "self-evident truths" just so that they wouldn't have to defend the claims. In actuality, the claims are not self-evident, and there is no proof that they are truths. If there were proof, you would be able to cite the document(s) written by God wherein he specifies what rights he gave us.

They used self evident truths so they wouldn't have to defend the claims??? That is quite a claim of your own
Once again, asking for a written document by God goes beyond the subject matter of this forum. Maybe Indiana Jones will reveal the Ten commandments someday

You're conflating needs and wants with rights. As best I can tell, there is only the one "natural right" (and I'm not sure that "right" is the best term to describe it).

Basic human needs and the ability to pursue them are our rights. When our ability to pursue our basic needs are inhibited by others, then that is a violation of our God given"natural" rights. That is what the founders were trying to accomplish when our nation created limited government, division of power and our Bill Of Rights. Once again, we will agree to disagree.