11-15-2011, 10:06 PM
LRRPF52 Wrote:"We used a 5.56 M4 a lot. I used ACOG sights, a suppressor, two-stage trigger, and Black Hills 77gr M262 ammo. It was a very, very lethal and effective cartridge. We were taking 750-yard, first-round incapacitation shots with it. It was pretty devastating, as the terminal ballistics of that round were very impressive. It rivaled, in some cases, the .308."
This to me is a bit stunning. Not that I don't believe it, just that even M262 ballistics are getting pretty wimpy past 500 yds, much less 750. At 500 yards it's roughly the same as .22 mag muzzle velocity.
I know of people killing deer with 22 mag and properly placed shots, so no doubt it's possible. But is it repeatable? Or a good idea tactically?
I guess I don't see these examples are addressing the perceived issues with M4/M885 in the "half K" challenge reportedly seen in A'stan. Add to that using an ACOG, just does not seem representative.
But I agree with all your points about training, etc.
Having shot HK91 with iron sights & milsurp ammo extensively at longer ranges, my view is that it's easier to hit at range than M-4's. And this seemed to be true for anyone who picked it up. My kids don't like shooting it with a scope because it's more fun for them to hit at range with open sights. Not advocating G3/FAL/M14 as service rifles, just that I do believe the M4 is harder to shoot by grunts than some of the alternatives.
All I know is that if A'stan is anything like the footage I've seen, I'm not sure the M4 is the best we have to offer. With or without M262 and ACOG's. I have a son in his first year at West Point. He will likely branch infantry, which likely means A'stan in about 4 years. Realistically, I don't see much changing armament wise by then. So it's something I think about occasionally.
But occasionally logic does prevail. Multi-cam allowed to replace ACU in country. Rethinking other decisions made by committee. (ACU, Strykers, M16A2, etc). That's balanced by huge defense cuts. I'm probably more concerned that my son won't get logistic support, ammo, or have enough personnel than I am about which rifle.
Interesting discussion, nonetheless!