For the discriminating Bullpup'er: A 6.5mm Grendel-chambered Desert Tech MDR

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

[SIZE="3"]I sent the following E-mail Message to Desert Tech Marketing Manager, Seth Ercanbrack:

"Dear Mr. Ercanbrack:

"I'll take this opportunity to applaud your superb presentation of the all-new Desert Tech Micro Dynamic Rifle (MDR), at the January, 2014 SHOT Show. That highly-anticipated introduction has since created shock waves of excitement, throughout the Internet.

"A long-time Bullpup Enthusiast and recent 6.5mm Grendel advocate, I'm encouraged upon noting the uncommon demand for this outstanding 21st Century combo:

"Bullpup Forum: Desert Tech MDR - Which caliber do you want this in?
.308 Winchester - 50.4 %
.223/5.56x45mm - 12 %
.300 AAC Blackout - 6.4 %
7.62x39mm Russian - 7.2 %
6.8mm Remington SPC - 3.2 %
6.5mm Grendel - 13.6 % (http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=5206.0).

"New from Desert Tech: MDR Bullpup, January 21, 2014, Readers' Comments:
'Kinda shocked Desert Tech wouldn't have a 6.5 Grendel conversion planned.';
'I would definitely like to see one of these in 6.5 Grendel.';
'I was thinking the same thing. Why not just cancel the 6.8 SPC and replace it with the 6.5 Grendel.' (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/01...r-bullpup/).

"Snipers Hide Forum: Desert Tech MDR Readers' Comments:
'The absence of the 6.5 Grendel in the lineup was a significant disappointment.';
'. . . A Grendel kit from DT would be a great addition as well.';
'I think one of the points to make with Desert Tech is that the 6.5 Grendel is still a potent cartridge out of a 16.5" barrel.';
'Am also hoping for a Grendel version. My go-to, do-it-all truck gun is a 14.5" Grendel.'
(http://forum.snipershide.com/snipers-hid...ere-2.html).

"In view of the above, can Bullpup'ers expect Desert Tech to include the can-do 6.5mm Grendel, in their MDR lineup for 2015 (http://deserttech.com/mdr.php)?

"Thank you for your consideration.

"Sincerely," [/SIZE]

[waveslayer]

Short-N-Sassy, I hope this sinks into the boys' heads up in SLC. I love DTA, I hope they will offer it in the 6.5 Grendel. If they don't, I am confident Greg at Primal Rights will get us a conversion kit, Travis does all his barrel work. Also, SAC will most likely jump on the bandwagon and be able to produce some awesome conversion kits for the MDR. Awesome letter and great data you have collected for them. I think it's a no brainer.

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

[SIZE="3"]I today received the following encouraging response to yesterday's E-mail Message:

"Thanks for your email. While 6.5 Grendel is not planned as an initial offering, feedback like this makes it more likely that it could be added in the future. Please keep the great feedback coming.

Best regards,

Seth Ercanbrack
Marketing Director
Desert Tech"[/SIZE]

[hydrotech]

I just watched a couple youtube video's. Looks like a really cool bull pup. i see its supposed to be multi-caliber. Intuitively I see that 5.56, 6.8spc, 7.62x29 could interchange easily as well as a future 6.5 because they have a similiar length for magazines and magwell size....much shorter than .308. However on the video I saw Ercanbrack said it was a .308 and could easily change to other calibers....that seems odd due to the much larger magwell and magazine size needed for a .308 compared to the shorter 5.56, 6.8, 7.62x39....any info on how it works? Also are they considered short barrel rifles by BATFE or are they long enough since the magwell and ejection port are positioned so far back?

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

. . . However on the video I saw Ercanbrack said it was a .308 and could easily change to other calibers....that seems odd due to the much larger magwell and magazine size needed for a .308 compared to the shorter 5.56, 6.8, 7.62x39....any info on how it works? Also are they considered short barrel rifles by BATFE or are they long enough since the magwell and ejection port are positioned so far back?

[SIZE="3"]hydrotech,

Re your question on the Desert Tech MDR magwell: In the following Link, scroll down the Page to the series of photos By SMGLEE. In photo #11, a close-up of the bottom of the MDR magwell, note the magazine adapter, which allows the use of AR-15-size magazines in the larger AR-10-size magwell.
(http://www.kaskus.co.id/thread/52dfb3105...skus.co.id)

Re your question about short-barrel rifles:
"Short-barreled rifle (SBR) is a legal designation in the United States, referring to a shoulder-fired, rifled firearm with a barrel length of less than 16 inches (40.6 cm) or overall length of less than 26 inches (66.0 cm). In the United States, an SBR is regulated by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) as an NFA firearm. . . ." --- (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short-barreled_rifle).
[/SIZE]

[hydrotech]

I see in the first link that it has an overall length of 26 inches. thats cool and I also saw the smaller magazine in the larger magwell...looks pretty neat

[cory]

Personally, with the Grendel, I'd op for using the .308 pmags if feasible.

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

Personally, with the Grendel, I'd op for using the .308 pmags if feasible.

[SIZE="3"]I think I know where you're going with that: (http://forum.snipershide.com/snipers-hid...ost2904640).

Then, there's the K&M Arms M17S, with beefy 3-lug triangular Bolt and planned 6.5mm Grendel chambering: (http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=...4#msg45534).
[/SIZE]

[stanc]

Personally, with the Grendel, I'd op for using the .308 pmags if feasible.

I think I know where you're going with that...

6.5 Creedmoor? 6.5x47 Lapua? Not much point in using bulky .308 P-Mags for the 6.5 Grendel cartridge.

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

[SIZE="3"]
. . . Then, there's the K&M Arms M17S, with beefy 3-lug triangular Bolt and planned 6.5mm Grendel chambering:
[/SIZE]

[SIZE="3"]http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=...8#msg65698
[/SIZE]

[LRRPF52]

There are huge engineering challenges with making a modular, quick caliber change rifle work at all. Just look at the Masada/ACR, SCAR, XCR, etc.

The caliber change kits have been long in the waiting for all of those designs. To change to a totally different parent case and action length within the same action now requires some way to address bolt travel differently, like when going from 5.56 to 7.62 NATO. Easier said than done.

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

There are huge engineering challenges with making a modular, quick caliber change rifle work at all. Just look at the Masada/ACR, SCAR, XCR, etc.

The caliber change kits have been long in the waiting for all of those designs. To change to a totally different parent case and action length within the same action now requires some way to address bolt travel differently, like when going from 5.56 to 7.62 NATO. Easier said than done.

[SIZE="3"]LRRPF52,

I fully agree. Moreover, my own experiences with taking ideas I'd drawn on paper and turning them into working prototypes earned my deep respect for the professional arms designer and the machinist. My Project: Sky-Pup was one such example ---




Truth is: When I first looked into the face of the beefy K&M Arms 3-lug triangular Bolt Ken McAlister designed, machined for the .308 Winchester, this morning, alongside his .223 Bolt (http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=...9#msg65679), my first thought was, 'Now, there's a proper Bolt for the 6.5mm Creedmoor, with enough meat in it to open it up to accept the 6.5mm SAUM!'

But, almost simultaneously, the thought came to mind, 'Finally, the right combination of Bolt-Barrel Extension and magazine length to allow "The little cartridge that could [heretofore, in the AR-15 platform, with one arm tied behind its back]" now be free to be all it can be" --- to the delight of 6.5mm Grendel Enthusiasts, everywhere. Thus: My Reply to Ken (http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=...8#msg65698), who is a manufacturing engineer.

I wish Ken the best of luck in this challenge.



[/SIZE]

[waveslayer]

I just watched a couple youtube video's. Looks like a really cool bull pup. i see its supposed to be multi-caliber. Intuitively I see that 5.56, 6.8spc, 7.62x29 could interchange easily as well as a future 6.5 because they have a similiar length for magazines and magwell size....much shorter than .308. However on the video I saw Ercanbrack said it was a .308 and could easily change to other calibers....that seems odd due to the much larger magwell and magazine size needed for a .308 compared to the shorter 5.56, 6.8, 7.62x39....any info on how it works? Also are they considered short barrel rifles by BATFE or are they long enough since the magwell and ejection port are positioned so far back?

It will be like their current bolt action rifles, just semi-auto. You will be able to change bolt heads, etc and use probably 2 different magazines. They have a proprietary magazines, they make a normal mag and a Magnum mag, all calibers fit. It's an awesome system. the ejection port being farther back is no issue. It would be like the Tavor's ejection port. If you are left handed don't shoot a right handed one, that hurts.

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

[SIZE="3"]I today received the following encouraging response to yesterday's E-mail Message:

"Thanks for your email. While 6.5 Grendel is not planned as an initial offering, feedback like this makes it more likely that it could be added in the future. Please keep the great feedback coming.

Best regards,

Seth Ercanbrack
Marketing Director
Desert Tech"[/SIZE]

[SIZE="3"]I E-mailed this follow-up Message, today:

"Dear Mr. Ercanbrack,

Thank you for your encouraging reply of September 10.

I think it's fair to state that the the clear advantages of lighter weight, shorter overall length and reduced mass of AR-15-length actions, over AR-10's, become somewhat blurred, upon viewing the "Specifications" of the new Desert Tech MDR Bullpup: 7.5 lbs., 27.12 inches overall length, w/ 16-inch barrel --- for both the .223 Remington (with smaller Bolt-Barrel Extension) and the larger, longer .308 Winchester chamberings (http://deserttech.com/mdr.php) (bottom of Page).

And, for those 6.5mm Grendel Enthusiasts, who yearn to trespass beyond the limitations imposed by the standard AR-15-length magazine (http://www.gunblast.com/images/Alexander...c-013f.jpg), the new DT MDR incorporates the highly-innovative AR-15/AR-10 magazine adapter (http://i62.tinypic.com/ay3nr8.jpg).

All of which, prompts one to take a new, prism-glass view of the factory-loaded Hornady 6.5mm Grendel cartridge, with the popular 123-grain A-MAX projectile (BC - 0.510), alongside an empty 6.5mm Grendel case and 1.410-inch-long JLK 6.5mm 140-grain Low Drag projectile (BC - 0.630) (http://i59.tinypic.com/6ygqqd.jpg). Oh, the possibilities!

I dare state that a 6.5mm Grendel-chambered MDR (with the larger Bolt-Barrel Extension) would be a winning combination.

Sincerely,"



[/SIZE]

[LRRPF52]

I'm thinking about a Tavor conversion as well, since there are after market triggers being made that change the game bigtime for that rifle.

[Variable]

I'm thinking about a Tavor conversion as well, since there are after market triggers being made that change the game bigtime for that rifle.

Same here. The Tavor is definitely on my radar.

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

[SIZE="3"]I sent the following E-mail Message to Desert Tech Marketing Director, Seth Ercanbrack, today:

"Mr. Ercanbrack,

There's no question that Desert Tech knows a thing or two about designing, building highly-accurate bolt-action Bullpups (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL0MH32rB6o). And, re the upcoming Desert Tech autoloading MDR Bullpup, I'm encouraged to read, "The barrel assemblies are completely free-floated, too, for maximum accuracy . . ." (http://www.guns.com/2014/01/20/desert-te...d-bullpup/).

Today's typical autoloading Bullpup carbine, with non-free-floating barrel, chambered for the mid-20th Century "varmint" cartridge deemed ideal for "jungle warfare operations" during the Vietnam War, delivers "combat-rifle accuracy" (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/06...tavor-sar/); (http://www.bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=5394.0); (http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=...7#msg49987), which limits one's use to short-to-medium ranges.

Enter: the 1/2 MOA 6.5mm Grendel (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1250867...#i30879121); (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1250867...#i30888773).

The challenge: an autoloading Bullpup carbine, delivering consistent sub-MOA accuracy, for e-x-t-e-n-d-e-d range use, chambered for a popular all-purpose, multi-range 21st Century cartridge (http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...ty_Updates).

I can envision a 2015 shooting magazine cover story, Escape from the 20th Century: The sub-MOA Desert Tech 6.5mm Grendel MDR, with inside heading, "'Cause today's state-of-the-art autoloading Bullpups aren't just for short-range use, anymore!"

Sincerely,"

[/SIZE]

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

[SIZE="3"]I sent the following E-mail Message to Desert Tech Marketing Director, Seth Ercanbrack, today:

"Mr. Ercanbrack,

There's no question that Desert Tech knows a thing or two about designing, building highly-accurate bolt-action Bullpups (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL0MH32rB6o). And, re the upcoming Desert Tech autoloading MDR Bullpup, I'm encouraged to read, "The barrel assemblies are completely free-floated, too, for maximum accuracy . . ." (http://www.guns.com/2014/01/20/desert-te...d-bullpup/).

Today's typical autoloading Bullpup carbine, with non-free-floating barrel, chambered for the mid-20th Century "varmint" cartridge deemed ideal for "jungle warfare operations" during the Vietnam War, delivers "combat-rifle accuracy" (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/06...tavor-sar/); (http://www.bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=5394.0); (http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=...7#msg49987), which limits one's use to short-to-medium ranges.

Enter: the 1/2 MOA 6.5mm Grendel (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1250867...#i30879121); (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1250867...#i30888773).

The challenge: an autoloading Bullpup carbine, delivering consistent sub-MOA accuracy, for e-x-t-e-n-d-e-d range use, chambered for a popular all-purpose, multi-range 21st Century cartridge (http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...ty_Updates).

I can envision a 2015 shooting magazine cover story, Escape from the 20th Century: The sub-MOA Desert Tech 6.5mm Grendel MDR, with inside heading, "'Cause today's state-of-the-art autoloading Bullpups aren't just for short-range use, anymore!"

Sincerely,"

[/SIZE]

[SIZE="3"]ETA, for our 6.5 Grendel Forum Members & Guests:

"AMERICA'S NATIONAL SECURITY strategy demands that our combat forces defeat enemy combatants across the full spectrum of battlefield environments, not just leafy jungles or the plains of Europe. Despite an increasing portfolio of enemies that are flexible, well armed, and robust, our Army, Marine Corps, and special operations forces have been stuck for decades hauling assault rifles firing NATO 5.56x45 millimeter (mm) (.223 caliber) varmint rounds over a half-century old. A decade into a new century, we need to adopt a more robust projectile and basic combat weapon (BCW) to meet current and emerging performance requirements. Despite incremental improvements, the M16 rifle and its 5.56 mm NATO round are unable to compete effectively in current and anticipated combat environments because of the physics of ballistic performance, combat terrain, and the nature and fighting characteristics of the enemy. . . . The physics of external ballistics and current and future combat environments appear to demand a new caliber of weapons --- whether or not based on the M16 chassis. Many firearm experts, combat users, and studies have recommended the heavier and modernized 123 gr., 6.5x39 mm Grendel Lapua Scenar cartridge as a replacement for the current 5.56 mm NATO and possibly the 7.62 mm NATO as well. With double the mass of the 5.56 mm NATO, the ballistics of the 6.5 mm 123 gr Lapua Scenar projectile far ourperforms the M16's 5.56 mm, the AK-47's 7.62x39 mm, the Barrett 6.8 mm SPC (110 - 115 gr.), and it flies faster, farther, and with significantly less recoil (9.23 lbs vs. 17.24 lbs) than the 7.62 mm NATO round. The superior ballistic performance (Ballistic Coefficient [BC] = 0.547), low recoil, higher accuracy, longer range, and superior reliability of a 6.5 mm basic combat weapon against the 5.56 mm M16 and AK-47's 7.62x39 mm should at least raise the possibility of replacing the 5.56 mm family of weapons with a new platform and cartridge. . . ." --- AN ARMY OUTGUNNED: Physics Demands A New Basic Combat Weapon, By Joseph P. Avery, Ph.D. (http://usacac.army.mil/CAC2/MilitaryRevi...art004.pdf).[/SIZE]