6.5 Grendel Variants, Good or Bad?

[BluntForceTrauma]

Ha! Good one!

John

[JASmith]

I'm not trying to knock anyone, but has been mentioned by Hanka, Grendel will likely get the blame for any problem child variants. With that in mind I'd suggest

6.5mm AR15 Wildcats



For me it's this one as the SAAMI spec is the only published/document Grendel. I would say any factory ammo loaded to this spec is Grendel Ammo.

Cory's point is well-taken, but how would we fit the 6mm AR Turbo and the 20 Grendel into a thread with the title "6.5mm AR15 Wildcats"?

How about "Grendel Progeny" or "Grendel Descendants" or "Sons and Daughters of the Grendel" ???

This might keep things close to the spirit of the 65Grendel.com forum. (Gotta stop laughing!)

In a more serious vein, we do need to follow Cory's advice and create a title that invites discussion of alternative configurations but gives some separation from the parent cartridge.

[nincomp]

How about "Grendel Progeny" or "Grendel Descendants" or "Sons and Daughters of the Grendel" ???

This is a good start. I, however, think that we should rule out some names from the start.
I vote that we rule out "Bastard Children of Grendel."

[JASmith]

Why didn't I think of that one?

I'll bet there are even more interesting possibilities, but, sadly, our fun has been spoiled by the implementation of the Grendel-Based Wildcats and Variants forum.

[jmhallrn]

So......"Demon Spawn of the Grendel" is a no go?

[JASmith]

I am sure that a truly good one -- especially one that evokes the right mixture of humor and serious intent -- might convince the chief forum guru to adjust the forum title. (I am a long way from being him).

"Demon spawn" hmmm... Did the Grendel of legend have any progeny?

[jmhallrn]

I am sure that a truly good one -- especially one that evokes the right mixture of humor and serious intent -- might convince the chief forum guru to adjust the forum title. (I am a long way from being him).

"Demon spawn" hmmm... Did the Grendel of legend have any progeny?

I don't think so. As I recall, Grendel and his mother were the only two.

[JASmith]

I think you're right, so that angle is rather challenging.

Of course, we could always start a rumor that a few illegitimate offspring were indeed spawned....

[96superflow]

The downside is confused consumers who throw up their hands and say, "I can't feed 6.5 Grendel factory ammo in this chamber! What's wrong with the 6.5 Grendel?" or "6.5 Grendel factory ammo shoots like crap in this chamber! What's wrong with the 6.5 Grendel?" You just know the 6.5 Grendel will be thrown under the bus and not the variant chamber. . . .

This is where I am currently. I have been doing research upon research trying to figure out which route would be better for me to go. I have a lead on a Blackhole Weaponry 18" Grendel I with upper receiver for $260 , and an unknown manufacturer (from Brownells) 18" Grendel II with bolt for $290. All the information keeps me questioning what I need. It will be used as a hunting rifle, and I don't need to shoot sub MOA groups just reliable groups. I will also be reloading for it as well. Then I am confused at what bolt I need with the Grendel I and Grendel II. If someone can clarify and help me out that would be greatly appreciated. For now I am going to be doing more research to see if I can straighten out the all this information....

[CrazyD]

I was under this same dilemma 2 weeks ago. I bit the bullet and bought the AR Stoner barrel and bolt combo from Midway. Which is the Grendel II chamber. got it all together last week and took it to the range with both Hornady factory AMAX and SST ammo. both shot less then 1MOA groups right off the bat and will only get better with a better trigger, more trigger time, and handloads. feeding and extraction was not a issue either. The rifle performed flawlessly.

the reason I went this route instead of with Blackhole was because the bolt was included and the barrel was head spaced to that bolt so in my eyes there was chance of getting the wrong bolt with the wrong barrel and the headspace not working or the ammo not feeding/extracting correctly.

[96superflow]

That is what I was th ok thinking I would do because I can get an upper receiver any where. That is probably what I am going to stick with.

[am4966]

I believe the brownells and AR Stoner barrel come the same place. You have more barrel options with the Midway barrel, but if you spend 300.00 at brownells you get 50.00 off. The both come with bolts.

[LR1955]

This is where I am currently. I have been doing research upon research trying to figure out which route would be better for me to go. I have a lead on a Blackhole Weaponry 18" Grendel I with upper receiver for $260 , and an unknown manufacturer (from Brownells) 18" Grendel II with bolt for $290. All the information keeps me questioning what I need. It will be used as a hunting rifle, and I don't need to shoot sub MOA groups just reliable groups. I will also be reloading for it as well. Then I am confused at what bolt I need with the Grendel I and Grendel II. If someone can clarify and help me out that would be greatly appreciated. For now I am going to be doing more research to see if I can straighten out the all this information....

This Grendel I and II is an invention that leads to confusion. I believe what guys are calling a Grendel I uses a 7.62 X 39 bolt and the II uses the same bolt but with the bolt face a bit deeper -- which is the design Alexander ended up using as a Grendel bolt.

Either one takes any commercial Grendel ammunition. I have both and you won't notice any difference between the two. Some say the 7.62 X 39 bolt won't last as long but if you buy a decent one, it will last just as long.

You won't find differences in accuracy or reliability between the two providing the barrel is cut properly. Obviously, since the bolt face on the 7.62 X 39 bolt is farther out than the Grendel bolt, the chamber needs to be cut a bit deeper. Which is why barrel makers want to know what type of bolt you are using.

LR1955

[LRRPF52]

They're talking about another level of confusion added by PTG, calling their chamber a "Grendel II", which has a .300 neck, and a parallel throat, not compound like the SAAMI. I think it really is a result of barrel makers not wanting to worry about reamer sharpening and tolerances so much. Holding to standards is hard, and besides, it requires measurement equipment they don't have, and will never buy anyway, as long as they just trust the reamer maker to get it right.

I don't think most consumers will care or notice anyway. The more barrels being made that eat factory ammo reliably, the better.

[96superflow]

Alright guys. I was thinking that it had something to do with the chambers and the .295 vs .300 neck. I was considering the .295 neck because I could (in theory) get more reloads out of the brass I was using. This is something very minuscule and I think I will go with the brownells barrel and bolt combo just so I know both are matched. I will eventually like to know what bolt I have so that I can have a backup (though I doubt anything will ever happen).

I have really just been bitten by the grendel bug and really like what the cartridge has to offer.

[NugginFutz]

I have two barrels from BHW - one in 5.56 and one in .264 LBC. My ordering experience was superb, the waits on both were very reasonable (under 6 weeks) and the factory support was spot on and very timely. Both barrels have delivered witnessed phenomenal, sub-caliber groups. Further, there is no barrel on the market that I am aware of that runs cleaner. If you are going to go with a non-Grendel throat, I don't see how you can go wrong with the BHW product.

As far as bolts are concerned, literally any Grendel bolt will work in this upper. I have bolts from both Les Baer and from Tactical Ammunition, a BHW affiliate. Both have the standard .136" recess bolt faces, and neither work the brass at all. Fired brass only needs a .003" setback, so headspace has never been a concern. BHW currently chambers their .264's for the bolts with .124" recess (Type I) as the default, and they will gladly cut a chamber headspaced for the Type II, .136" bolt.

Just my .02.

[96superflow]

I have two barrels from BHW - one in 5.56 and one in .264 LBC. My ordering experience was superb, the waits on both were very reasonable (under 6 weeks) and the factory support was spot on and very timely. Both barrels have delivered witnessed phenomenal, sub-caliber groups. Further, there is no barrel on the market that I am aware of that runs cleaner. If you are going to go with a non-Grendel throat, I don't see how you can go wrong with the BHW product.

As far as bolts are concerned, literally any Grendel bolt will work in this upper. I have bolts from both Les Baer and from Tactical Ammunition, a BHW affiliate. Both have the standard .136" recess bolt faces, and neither work the brass at all. Fired brass only needs a .003" setback, so headspace has never been a concern. BHW currently chambers their .264's for the bolts with .124" recess (Type I) as the default, and they will gladly cut a chamber headspaced for the Type II, .136" bolt.

Just my .02.

Now that is the information I was looking for. The actual differences between type I and type II. BHW listed theirs as a type I with no explanation of what that ment. If I understand you correctly, they only thing I will need is a bolt with that .124" recess for it.

If I am incorrect, just tell me outright.

[96superflow]

Went ahead and order a BHW 18" 1-9 w/ polygonal rifling. I was hoping for 1-8 but this will do just fine for what I want it for. Got it from ammo surplus. 260 shipped and comes with the upper receiver. Now I just have to order the bolt for it and then a couple mags. My main concern was to get the main stuff then search for deal as far as handguards and what not. I will start my thread and post up some pics when it arrives.

[NugginFutz]

Now that is the information I was looking for. The actual differences between type I and type II. BHW listed theirs as a type I with no explanation of what that ment. If I understand you correctly, they only thing I will need is a bolt with that .124" recess for it.

If I am incorrect, just tell me outright.

You've got it right. And that looks like a smoking deal, as well.

Be sure to update us as your build progresses, with the obligatory pictures.

[bwaites]

Went ahead and order a BHW 18" 1-9 w/ polygonal rifling. I was hoping for 1-8 but this will do just fine for what I want it for. Got it from ammo surplus. 260 shipped and comes with the upper receiver. Now I just have to order the bolt for it and then a couple mags. My main concern was to get the main stuff then search for deal as far as handguards and what not. I will start my thread and post up some pics when it arrives.

Hopefully you will be able to find decent bolts to that spec. Most people have had mixed results at best. Looking forward to the build and results!