Grendel II chamber

[Overwatcher]

Just received an email from Satern saying they are now offering a Grendel II chamber.Can anyone elaborate on this? My understanding is the reamer takes out the compound throat.
How many more different Grendel variants can we get!? Kind of getting annoying.
This barrel will be used primarily for lighter bullets including Nos 100 BT,100 Amax,95 Vmax,and 85 sierra's.
Just wondering if this would be a better option for the lighter bullets.
Thanks,
OW

[woodbnek]

I got the same email today.

[BluntForceTrauma]

There is only one 6.5 Grendel chamber, and it is both SAAMIed and CIPed. Period.

However, just as there might be one official 5.56 NATO chamber specification, that does not prevent the gun world from inventing a zillion different chamber variations that all purport to fire .223 Remington and 5.56 NATO cartridges, right? Each claims it's better than all the others and the reamer makers get rich.

If you give a number to every possible variant Grendel chamber, you'll soon be at a Grendel VII chamber, and a Grendel XVIII chamber, and a Grendel CMXXVI chamber, and so forth. . . .

So, there's no need for confusion or annoyance: A given vendor is either offering a 6.5 Grendel SAAMI chamber or they are not. If they are, all is good. If they are not, then know what you're doing, just like those who are into variant chamberings for .223 Remington and .308 Winchester.

When all this brouhaha erupted a month or so ago, it was claimed that Satern wanted to create a chamber that "worked better" with the longer, heavier bullets. So my GUESS is that, for the lighter bullets, you'd be better served with a standard SAAMI chamber.

John

P.S. It would be interesting to ask Satern if they will cut you a standard SAAMI 6.5 Grendel chamber.

[WildBill3/75]

never mind.

[PigOPs]

I do believe this particular reamer has been around awhile. There has been so much hearsay that we need to be careful not to lose sight of the facts:

1) The reamers used by Satern on the Liberty (short-throats) were NOT made by PTG.
2) Dave Kiff at PTG helped Satern rectify the problem with a reamer that he says: a) has been is used for 2-3 years and b) he will personally guarantee to outshoot the conventional Grendel chamber.

(Note: I am not agreeing/disagreeing just want the facts to be stated clearly)

[Slappy]

How can it be a Grendel in 6.5 when it will not shoot 6.5 Grendel ammo from let's say Hornady or any other ammo bunch? BANG BANG!!

On a side note,, I would put my rifle up against anything out there with the same shooter,, just sayin. BANG BANG!!

[bwaites]

First, please read the rules.

Second, the Grendel chamber is SAAMI'd. There is no such thing as a Grendel II chamber except in the minds of some people. If its a Grendel, its the SAAMI chamber, period.

Third, please adjust your posts above as necessary. There is actually cause for slander in at least one of those posts. That should be removed by the member posting.

Rule Number 2 states: In this spirit, we ask members to refrain from posting items that contain inaccurate or grossly misleading statements. Those statements might pertain to other members, manufacturers, reloading practices, measurements or any other item which might harm the reputation of people or hardware. They might also include statements which advocate unsafe or unrecognized practices.

Posting something which might be harmful is covered.

Thank you.

[WildBill3/75]

never mind

Not only never mind...but this whole issue bothered me to the point with all the hear say and my own shortthroat issues to pick up the phone and find out for EVERYTHING for myself...which I should of done in the 1st place instead of mixing a bunch of internet hear say and facts and coming to my own conclusion.

A conclusion, which was the impression from what a lot of posters have been posting for months is that a throat scraping is the only option they offer and that impression didn't sit well with me. This is wrong according to my phone conversation, well at least as long as you own a cut rifled barrel.

I do not know how or why they short-throated some barrels. I do know, at least in my case, it looks like they intend on making it right.

I will post more once my barrel ordeal comes to the conclusion but if you own a cut rifled Satern, from my conversation, they will ream with a 6.5 Grendel compounded throat reamer or a Grendel II reamer based on customer preference.

If you have a short throated barrel. Pick up the phone and call them.

[Overwatcher]

Please excuse my ignorance with the whole deal as I am halfway through the 48 page thread on the liberty group buy.Quite honestly i didnt want anything to do with the whole deal and didnt bother to read it.All I have to say as a machinist by trade is the term "scraping" is no good and a BS term.So IF I do tell SATERN that I want a 6.5 Grendel chamber,am I going to get a short throat?
What a shlit show.

[explorecaves]

Contact mark at PF…. think it is $75? and he will use a finish reamer to fix it...

[Overwatcher]

Pfff no thanks! however I do appreciate the fact that Mark is willing to do that.Getting everything set up and concentric to the chamber and bore once its already been cut can be a chore.

[bwaites]

It is critical that people actually contact those with whom they are doing business!

The solution of "scraping" the throat is not one that I would have foreseen from Satern, but if members are happy with it, I feel like it is one solution.

BUT...the board exists to help members, and not to hammer on anyone for their decisions or business practices. Satern has made thousands of Grendel barrels, and until this last episode with the Liberty barrels, I had heard very few complaints! I have two myself, and they are great barrels.

Work with whoever made your barrels, and try to work something out between you that is satisfactory to both, please!

Internet scandal is all to easy a trap to fall into. Lets not create ill will where none is necessary!

[cory]

I do believe this particular reamer has been around awhile. There has been so much hearsay that we need to be careful not to lose sight of the facts:

1) The reamers used by Satern on the Liberty (short-throats) were NOT made by PTG.
2) Dave Kiff at PTG helped Satern rectify the problem with a reamer that he says: a) has been is used for 2-3 years and b) he will personally guarantee to outshoot the conventional Grendel chamber.

(Note: I am not agreeing/disagreeing just want the facts to be stated clearly)

I thought it was a PTG reamer they were using from the beginning. My information came from reading this forum and following the great Liberty S**T Show of 2014, so it may very well be completely incorrect.

If it wasn't a PTG reamer would you provide the source for that information, please?

[Lead Chucker]

I did call Satern 3 weeks ago to ask if they could lengthen the throat on two Stoner barrels and keep the compound throat...just lengthen it. I was told they would ask and find out and call me back. I have not heard back. Im not bashing Satern, I have a rifle cut 18" that shoots great. And although these Stoner barrels have a some what short throat they are very accurate.

[NugginFutz]

I thought it was a PTG reamer they were using from the beginning. My information came from reading this forum and following the great Liberty S**T Show of 2014, so it may very well be completely incorrect.

If it wasn't a PTG reamer would you provide the source for that information, please?

Read (gag) here, if you can stomach going back through it. I have to go wash my mouse...

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...#post83844

[hidesert cowboy]

so if a go and no go gauge fits exactly the same as in the grendel and grendel II chambers how is the second one not a grendel chamber and acceptable to SAMMI?? its been repeated to we are blue in the face there is NO spec for throat length. I disagree how the how liberty deal was handled by them. but having a different throat option in my mind is a good thing. being able to always seat out to at least mag length is a great thing. If accuracy was proven in the grendel II I would honestly rather have that chamber. so far its not been proven yet.

[cory]

Read (gag) here, if you can stomach going back through it. I have to go wash my mouse...

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...#post83844

I need a stiff drink after reading that **** again. I say again, but I don't recall that post. I may have missed it the first time. I recall a mention of a JGS reamer before now, so I likely missed it. Either way. :/

[bwaites]

so if a go and no go gauge fits exactly the same as in the grendel and grendel II chambers how is the second one not a grendel chamber and acceptable to SAMMI?? its been repeated to we are blue in the face there is NO spec for throat length. I disagree how the how liberty deal was handled by them. but having a different throat option in my mind is a good thing. being able to always seat out to at least mag length is a great thing. If accuracy was proven in the grendel II I would honestly rather have that chamber. so far its not been proven yet.

There IS a spec for throat length, what has been repeated and repeated does not make it truth. Dave Kiff considers the throat part of the spec, as does AA, Hornady, Lilja, Precision Firearms, etc. Only Satern has stated that it isn't.

The SAAMI Grendel chamber has a .5 degree cone into the throat, in comparison to standard throats which have a 1.5 degree.

The go/no go gauges also work for the 6mm AR, the 20 Grendel, etc. They only determine headspace, the point on the shoulder where the datum is.

I can seat all the regular Grendel Bullets out past mag length in my Satern Cut Rifled Grendels. There is plenty of room to do so. I can seat 130 Bergers out there too. For single loading, I've run the Bergers out to 2.32 COAL.

[NugginFutz]

so if a go and no go gauge fits exactly the same as in the grendel and grendel II chambers how is the second one not a grendel chamber and acceptable to SAMMI?? its been repeated to we are blue in the face there is NO spec for throat length. I disagree how the how liberty deal was handled by them. but having a different throat option in my mind is a good thing. being able to always seat out to at least mag length is a great thing. If accuracy was proven in the grendel II I would honestly rather have that chamber. so far its not been proven yet.

But the spec DOES cover the throat. And THAT has been repeated and proven in several places. Please, don't make me go back in that bad place, again. The info is there for anyone who really wants to know.

[BjornF16]

so if a go and no go gauge fits exactly the same as in the grendel and grendel II chambers how is the second one not a grendel chamber and acceptable to SAMMI?? its been repeated to we are blue in the face there is NO spec for throat length. I disagree how the how liberty deal was handled by them. but having a different throat option in my mind is a good thing. being able to always seat out to at least mag length is a great thing. If accuracy was proven in the grendel II I would honestly rather have that chamber. so far its not been proven yet.

A go/no go gauge does not measure the Leade/Throat...only the case chamber.

The Grendel go/no go gauges fit .264 LBC, 6.5 CSS, etc. It doesn't mean these are Grendel SAAMI spec any more than a .223 Wylde chamber is the same as .223 Remington or 5.56 NATO (also all using the same go/no go gauge).

I'm not sure who is repeating until "we are blue in the face" about the throat, but the throat is just as much a part of SAAMI spec as is the chamber...whomever is telling you this is grossly mis-informed. Just look at the SAAMI drawing for minimum chamber and you will see the throat dimensions specified.