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Sputnik Wrote:I am so very happy you have had success over the years with Liberty barrels. Please consider those of us building our first 6.5 Grendel build and wanted a good quality barrel to mount. Then see our concern and dismay caused by this thread. My concern began with the OP listing his issues and I realized that Midway AR Stoner barrels are the same as Liberty barrels. My measured 2.238 123 SST dummy round had no visible marks. My concern increased when I posted #184 and my 2.245 measured 123 Amax and SST hand chambered but were difficult to extract and showed 5 equally spaced small land marks around the circumference of the projectile forward of the end of the casing. My dismay is growing, because Satern needs to "get off the pot" and respond better than we have seen so far. I won't build until this is resolved. My wife won't allow my Son or my Grandson to shoot it until it is fixed, and I don't want to break bolts because of excess pressure that may produce a faster muzzle velocity. So it sits here on the table, while I wait.
I still don't see why you haven't sent it to Satern. Since bwaites offered LRRPF52, that's fine too. But I think if he notes an issue, the barrels in question needs to go to Satern to look at them in case it was a slip thru the cracks QC issue and determine if its all of the barrels or just a couple. At some point, they need to be able to see it so let him do his diagnostics as a Dr. then send it to the Surgeon.
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01-30-2014, 05:17 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2014, 05:21 PM by Sputnik.)
Tedward Wrote:I still don't see why you haven't sent it to Satern. Since bwaites offered LRRPF52, that's fine too. But I think if he notes an issue, the barrels in question needs to go to Satern to look at them in case it was a slip thru the cracks QC issue and determine if its all of the barrels or just a couple. At some point, they need to be able to see it so let him do his diagnostics as a Dr. then send it to the Surgeon.
I notified Lindsey on 22 Jan 2014 of my chamber concerns. I offered to send back my barrel on the 23rd for examination as they figure out an "adaptation". They are making a list. Awaiting their reply.
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01-30-2014, 05:30 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2014, 05:37 PM by bwaites.)
Tedward Wrote:I still don't see why you haven't sent it to Satern. Since bwaites offered LRRPF52, that's fine too. But I think if he notes an issue, the barrels in question needs to go to Satern to look at them in case it was a slip thru the cracks QC issue and determine if its all of the barrels or just a couple. At some point, they need to be able to see it so let him do his diagnostics as a Dr. then send it to the Surgeon.
I agree that Satern needs to see the barrels to determine if they are in spec. Having LRRPF52 check them is simply to get someone who has objectivity to use the same measuring techniqes over several barrels.
I am flummoxed as to why a reputable manufacturers barrels are having these issues, when others, supposedly using the EXACT SAME DRAWINGS and reamers cut to supposedly the EXACT SAME SPECIFICATIONS are not.
Having the barrels side by side will be at least one more link to help answer questions.
You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live. - John Galt
I've been doing some research based on some of the statements that have been made about the Liberty barrels dating back through last year.
If anyone remembers, Xcountryrider posted a thread advertising Liberty Barrels as having consistently higher than average velocities due to 5R rifling, and a significant effort was made to try to get the point across that pressure is what drives higher velocities.
It all makes sense if you consider that a shorter throat is resisting projectile jump, so the start pressure builds faster, and thus generates more velocity.
The next question is, how much more pressure do you need to achieve 300-420fps faster than industry published and piezoelectric meter tested loads that are under 51,800psi.
Answer to LRRPF52's question about increased pressure: A LOT!!
Simple physics will tell you that.
on the pressure increase from jamming, in quickload it says to add 10,000 psi to the start pressure if you are jamming the bullets when running ballistic calculations.
XcountryRider
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I got a voice mail that those from the barrel buy that want a refund has to go through me. Not the hassle I signed up for grrrrrr
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01-30-2014, 06:29 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2014, 06:31 PM by RAM2940.)
I dont have a liberty barrel, but do have a satern barrel on order and been following this thread. It sure would be nice if someone that owns one of the suspect barrels sends it back to satern with the rounds that are sticking. This way they can be examined and they can arrive at a solution to this issue. You would think that should resolve this issue.
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bwaites Wrote:I agree that Satern needs to see the barrels to determine if they are in spec. Having LRRPF52 check them is simply to get someone who has objectivity to use the same measuring techniqes over several barrels.
I am flummoxed as to why a reputable manufacturers barrels are having these issues, when others, supposedly using the EXACT SAME DRAWINGS and reamers cut to supposedly the EXACT SAME SPECIFICATIONS are not.
Having the barrels side by side will be at least one more link to help answer questions.
That sounds fine, I don't care who gets them but yes, having another set of eyes on the issue sounds like a good idea. Then he can discuss with Satern what he see's and so on. Just get the barrels looked at and over to Satern, really want to know if both people are see the same thing and what they come up with.
Thanks for trying to get this under the bridge and resolved. I think that is all everyone is asking and trying to do.
Also has anyone sent a barrel in question back to Satern? I haven't heard of a troublesome barrel being returned to them, only Midway..
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XcountryRider Wrote:I got a voice mail that those from the barrel buy that want a refund has to go through me. Not the hassle I signed up for grrrrrr
Hopefully, it will not come to that.
I don't want a refund. I want a barrel that will shoot factory ammo right off the shelf with no worries.
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FlatsFlite Wrote:Hopefully, it will not come to that.
I don't want a refund. I want a barrel that will shoot factory ammo right off the shelf with no worries.
Either call them and take if off your shelf then send it to them so they can look at it or we will talk about this forever. Just put it in the mail to somewhere.. golly gee wiz professor.
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Tedward Wrote:Either call them and take if off your shelf then send it to them so they can look at it or we will talk about this forever. Just put it in the mail to somewhere.. golly gee wiz professor.
You don't read so well either?
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01-30-2014, 07:17 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2014, 08:54 PM by FlatsFlite.)
Tedward Wrote:Either call them and take if off your shelf then send it to them so they can look at it or we will talk about this forever. Just put it in the mail to somewhere.. golly gee wiz professor.
Upon confirmation that Satern will accept it for inspection, I will do just that. If not, I will find a confident smith to correct the issue for me.
It is ironic that some barrels are having the same problem I had 8 months ago with my McGowen barrel (PTG Reamer). I sent my barrel back along with my AA bolt and a box of factory Hornady 123gr. Amax ammo, something that you might want to consider sending with the barrel. The outcome in my case went sour fast though, hope the outcome for you guys works out good. Best wishes.
Quote:...golly gee wiz professor.
This is only one of a few hundred gratuitous comments in this thread. This practice is one of the reasons we see defensive behavior by multiple parties.
Other reasons are unwillingness to accept documentable answers to misunderstandings of the way things work.
While it is difficult to deal with unwillingness to learn, we can and must stop making statements either intended to or that can be reasonably be expected to inflame the discussion.
Let's put an end to gratuitous remarks!
XcountryRider Wrote:I got a voice mail that those from the barrel buy that want a refund has to go through me. Not the hassle I signed up for grrrrrr
I don't think you should have to hassle with it or make it right....the barrels are from satern...if they don't work that's where they should go...I appreciate your work to get the group buy...As they say...buyer beware....I have not shot mine much yet because i decided to switch optics. The viper should be here today...
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hydrotech Wrote:I don't think you should have to hassle with it or make it right....the barrels are from satern...if they don't work that's where they should go...I appreciate your work to get the group buy...As they say...buyer beware....I have not shot mine much yet because i decided to switch optics. The viper should be here today...
I agree, that is weird.
It should be noted that if someone were to sell one of these barrels without disclosing these issues and the buyer was to get injured or killed because of a barrel malfunction, the seller would be criminally liable.
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security, deserve neither." Benjamin Franklin
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JASmith Wrote:Let's put an end to gratuitous remarks![/B][/I]
Exactly!
IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A BARREL THAT IS AFFECTED, PLEASE STOP POSTING ON THIS THREAD. THE ISSUE IS GETTING COVERED OVER BY ALL THE USELESS SIDE COMMENTS!
If you do have one of the barrels in question, the proper channel is to call Satern and discuss your issue.
XCR, unfortunately, when you sponsor a group buy, you are becoming the middleman between the buyers and the company, and I know it sucks! I've been there. It's why I'm trying to limit group buys by keeping everything in one forum and only with prior approval.
You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live. - John Galt
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Anyone have anything more constructive to say? Otherwise I'll close this thread shortly.
I appreciate bwaites offering up LRRPF52's assistance as an objective, third-party analysis, but I can't imagine that, even if you shipped your barrel to LR for review, that he could take on the liability of saying it's OK or not to shoot. Ultimately, he'd have still have to send it back to Satern.
Thus, as per standard practice, it makes sense to me that if any feel they have an out-of-spec barrel, please have a competent gunsmith certify it or send it back to Satern for review.
John
:: 6.5 GRENDEL Deer and Targets :: 6mmARC Targets and Varmints and Deer :: 22 ARC Varmints and Targets
:: I Drank the Water :: Revelation 21:6 ::
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Sputnik Wrote:I am so very happy you have had success over the years with Liberty barrels. Please consider those of us building our first 6.5 Grendel build and wanted a good quality barrel to mount. Then see our concern and dismay caused by this thread. My concern began with the OP listing his issues and I realized that Midway AR Stoner barrels are the same as Liberty barrels. My measured 2.238 123 SST dummy round had no visible marks. My concern increased when I posted #184 and my 2.245 measured 123 Amax and SST hand chambered but were difficult to extract and showed 5 equally spaced small land marks around the circumference of the projectile forward of the end of the casing. My dismay is growing, because Satern needs to "get off the pot" and respond better than we have seen so far. I won't build until this is resolved. My wife won't allow my Son or my Grandson to shoot it until it is fixed, and I don't want to break bolts because of excess pressure that may produce a faster muzzle velocity. So it sits here on the table, while I wait.
I just received this from Lindsey at Satern:
"I talked to Deb and she said that they will be posting a message on our website regarding everything that has been going on with the Grendel barrels that were recently sent out, so please keep your eyes on our site. However, because we have determined that our chambers and reamers are within SAAMI specs, and these are not defective barrels, we will not be issuing return shipment labels. We will adjust the throat free of charge for customers who would like the adjustment. I will add you to our list, and once that message is posted, I will be able to start receiving barrels from our customers. Let me know if you have any further concerns. Thanks."
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