What is your preferred Home Defense caliber, suppressed SBR or Bullpup

[BjornF16]

I have 1/2" thick Kevlar and yes it will penetrate one piece... it was a generalized comment. If they have 2 pieces of Kevlar, it will not penetrate both. I have tested it but it sure will shatter the second piece and knock the hell out of them.

Which bullet would you use for home defense? 240 or 335 HP? or other?

[Tedward]

I actually like the 240 split hollow point solid brass (no lead). They would be less likely to penetrate and keep going, just blow a hell of hole in them if they got into my hallways. I have a 30 foot hall into a 30 foot great room so distance is a necessity if they get into my house. Pistols for the closer range but the Wulf lives near by.

I have tested the Solid Brass Spitzer on AR500 but just left a gold splatter on the black plate. It will penitrate the Kevlar better but the 240 is a surface and quick opener round. I do ballistic tests on all kinds of rounds and just had some Grendel Barnes TAC-TX 100gr with 29gr of H335 loaded. Dead ass accurate at 100 yards, more so than my SST's or Amax. Not sure why but going to test on the Kevlar soon.

[Kikn]

I also choose the Beowulf...

If you don't have neighbors for 100 yards, you don't have family in the house and don't mind redecorating your house afterwards by all means....just be sure you keep your earplugs next to your wulf because the next fatality will be your ear drums....

On the plus side after your assailants are deaf you could then run (Literally without detection) around to the other side of the house and then stab them in the back with your knife.....just saying.... :-)

[babaganoush]

I choose ... A pit bull. Never runs empty, no danger of over penetration (other than the perp's backside) and works while I sleep. Doubles as an alarm, and cannot be used against me, if I lose control of it.

Seriously, though, a good large dog (breed is your option) is my preferred first line of defense, with an SBR or carbine, in 5.56, firing 40 gr V-Max for those stupid enough to force their way in, and possibly past my dog. One last comment on K-9 as a Home Defense, is that my wife and kids don't have to train in order to use one, should I be elsewhere.

ETA: LRRPF52 has truly shown a different side of himself, tonight, and expressed an opinion I heartily share.

[cory]

I choose ... A pit bull. Never runs empty, no danger of over penetration (other than the perp's backside) and works while I sleep. Doubles as an alarm, and cannot be used against me, if I lose control of it.

Seriously, though, a good large dog (breed is your option) is my preferred first line of defense, with an SBR or carbine, in 5.56, firing 40 gr V-Max for those stupid enough to force their way in, and possibly past my dog. One last comment on K-9 as a Home Defense, is that my wife and kids don't have to train in order to use one, should I be elsewhere.

ETA: LRRPF52 has truly shown a different side of himself, tonight, and expressed an opinion I heartily share.

I completely agree! I have to admit it didn't even occur to me in this discussion.

However, I firmly believe boxers are the way to go! (I'm a little biased)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]4371[/ATTACH]
Gunny & Zeus, it's their house I just take up space. HAHA

That picture is from the end of last summer and the puppy on the right has gotten bigger.

The one on the left is ~75lbs and the right is ~95lbs.

I've been meaning to get a sign printed for my front porch, "Do as the dogs command and leave, as they're here to protect you from me." With an AR15 at the bottom of the sign.

[explorecaves]

[stanc]

An 85-95 grain Grendel might be an ok choice inside, but it would not be the first choice you would pick would it?

Uh, I guess it wasn't clear that I was being facetious in my previous post.

To answer your question, I refer you to my first post in this thread: http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...#post81543

[KentuckyBuddha]

Uh, I guess it wasn't clear that I was being facetious in my previous post.

To answer your question, I refer you to my first post in this thread: http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...#post81543

No worries!

Oh I see, I didn't recall and I didn't re-read the thread before posting. 9x19 goes through soft stuff pretty easily and the manner of death pretty much unless you get an apricot is exsanguination. If you are a fan of the Mp5, they have the HK53 which is a dandy choice in .223. I have used and liked it but again it was full auto and while I can control it to the size of a pie pan or so at 25 yards I am not sure I would have anything like the control I would want under pressure in a house. I have a (and have had several) house(s) where there were big open areas of at least 15 yards.

Despite my training efforts, my housecats seem entirely apathetic to pulling any kind of guard duties in the house, and I am forced to grudgingly concede the superiority of the pit bull and boxer for that aspect as a pet choice. lol

[Tedward]

I also choose the Beowulf...

If you don't have neighbors for 100 yards, you don't have family in the house and don't mind redecorating your house afterwards by all means....just be sure you keep your earplugs next to your wulf because the next fatality will be your ear drums....

On the plus side after your assailants are deaf you could then run (Literally without detection) around to the other side of the house and then stab them in the back with your knife.....just saying.... :-)

That is what I'm talking about. weather its the Wolf or a 9mm, your ears will ring, you just can't do it regularly. With the Wulf its low frequency one shot so you don't have more damage than needed. Also all of the noise is projected away from the canon.

And I too have a Pincher and 2 Golden Retrievers, once the Pincher barks all bells go off (3 dogs) and you think the Beowulf is loud. That is my first defense of notification. I guess I failed to mention, its a Miniature Pincher and he thinks he's a 100lb Bull Dog. The UPS guy is afraid to make delivery's if he is outside.

[Dogue]

My preferred home defense round is 12 gauge (#1 Buckshot) to allow me to get to the safe, then my 5.56 AR is first in line (loaded with 75g TAP 5.56).

The rest of my home security setup is OPSEC, but it does include an alert Pug and her big brother and sister.

[cory]

I believe that may be better. ROFL

[bwaites]

I choose ... A pit bull. Never runs empty, no danger of over penetration (other than the perp's backside) and works while I sleep. Doubles as an alarm, and cannot be used against me, if I lose control of it.

Seriously, though, a good large dog (breed is your option) is my preferred first line of defense, with an SBR or carbine, in 5.56, firing 40 gr V-Max for those stupid enough to force their way in, and possibly past my dog. One last comment on K-9 as a Home Defense, is that my wife and kids don't have to train in order to use one, should I be elsewhere.

ETA: LRRPF52 has truly shown a different side of himself, tonight, and expressed an opinion I heartily share.

IF you have a dog with PROFESSIONAL training, they MIGHT be depended upon to be helpful.

Our neighborhood had a one night rash of burglaries about 6 years ago. 9 OCCUPIED homes in a lakeside setting were broken into in the 4-6 AM time frame. One of those had a German Shepherd roaming the house and a dog door to the garage. The suspects entered the house manipulating a sliding glass door that was locked. They found keys to the SUV in the garage, loaded the loot, and left, making their way through eight more houses. 3 of those also had large breed dogs, including our Pit Bull. NOT ONE OF THE DOGS EVEN SOUNDED THE ALARM THAT SOMETHING WAS UP!

They entered our house through a back garage door, then an interior unlocked door from the garage. (Terrible OPSec on my part. the exterior door has been replaced with a steel frame, steel core wooden door and the interior garage door is now deadbolted.)

All four of us with large breed dogs THOUGHT our dogs would make noise, at least. None of us ever figured out why they didn't.

We now have significantly upgraded our alarm system in several different ways, but we learned that unless your dogs are exceptionally well trained, or you get very lucky, dogs aren't as good a system as we had hoped.

[BjornF16]

I professionally train my Airedale Terrier...she gets routine "bite work" on a live human (wearing a bite sleeve/suit). Includes obedience. You would be surprised how dogs actually behave the first time in training. Most people think they have a bad-a$$ dog only to find they run away...LOL. They need training.

However, I don't really want this thread to digress into dog selection. I'm really interested in the rifles you choose for home defense.

[montana]

You would be surprised how dogs actually behave the first time in training. Most people think they have a bad-a$$ dog only to find they run away...LOL. They need training.

"Just like people," LOL

[stanc]

No worries!

Oh I see, I didn't recall and I didn't re-read the thread before posting. 9x19 goes through soft stuff pretty easily and the manner of death pretty much unless you get an apricot is exsanguination. If you are a fan of the Mp5, they have the HK53 which is a dandy choice in .223.

I do like the MP5, and have found it easy to shoot rapid semi-auto with good control. I think 9mm hollowpoints have demonstrated adequate stopping power with minimal overpenetration of soft targets. With an MP5 so loaded, I would feel quite capably armed for the stated home defense scenario.

One reason I prefer 9x19 over 5.56x45, is the muzzle blast in a SMG/SBR is much, much less with the former.

[LRRPF52]

You would be surprised how dogs actually behave the first time in training. Most people think they have a bad-a$$ dog only to find they run away...LOL. They need training.

"Just like people," LOL

I used to work with K-9's and was going to post this same thing, but didn't really want to hurt anyone's pride in their dogs.

A really good example for me was dealing with a particular breed that is the most sought after attack/assault dog, namely the Belgian Malinois. This dog had been trained from infancy to be a killer, but had been out of a good training cycle over the winter when his owner/handler came to demo him for us.

Malinois are satan's spawn when it comes to this sort of thing, and will tear people's throats out on command. We had a hard time getting this dog into his niche, because he hadn't trained over the winter. I had to really antagonize him while in the bite suit, and even then, he was slow to start, not interested in really performing. He did sneak in a leg slash on me that I didn't notice until the evening, and he would head butt you with the back bone on his skull if the owner shocked him.

It often take$ dedication and continual training with certain breed$ of dog$ if you are going to maintain a reliable K-9 security posture that will follow and execute your commands with strict obedience.

[KentuckyBuddha]

Stanc,

Cool! That is definitely right about muzzle flash. It can be quite a fireworks show inside with .223/5.56 in SBR/Pistol length for sure.

KB

[BjornF16]

I used to work with K-9's and was going to post this same thing, but didn't really want to hurt anyone's pride in their dogs.

A really good example for me was dealing with a particular breed that is the most sought after attack/assault dog, namely the Belgian Malinois. This dog had been trained from infancy to be a killer, but had been out of a good training cycle over the winter when his owner/handler came to demo him for us.

Malinois are satan's spawn when it comes to this sort of thing, and will tear people's throats out on command. We had a hard time getting this dog into his niche, because he hadn't trained over the winter. I had to really antagonize him while in the bite suit, and even then, he was slow to start, not interested in really performing. He did sneak in a leg slash on me that I didn't notice until the evening, and he would head butt you with the back bone on his skull if the owner shocked him.

It often take$ dedication and continual training with certain breed$ of dog$ if you are going to maintain a reliable K-9 security posture that will follow and execute your commands with strict obedience.

I don't care much for Malinois, but mostly because of the ones I've been around. Spastic! They are smaller than I like and someone who knows what they are doing could snap their neck (but it would cost him an arm in doing it). I'd rather have a Dutch Shepherd over Malinois; but in spirit of pursuing non-standard calibers I elected to go with Airedales.

[KentuckyBuddha]

Airdales used to be by orders of magnitude the most popular breed in the United States, but I can't remember the last time I saw one.

[LRRPF52]

For general perimeter security and some attack work, I fell in love with Shepherds, mainly because of their intellect and general temperament, but I'm not a breeder or formally-trained trainer. I know I learned a lot of things from the Shepherds about movement, and how much I could trust them to do things a human needs years of training to barely be able to do.

I would own a shepherd if it weren't for my travel schedule. You can't just dump them off on people, and they shed like nobody's business.

Speaking of working with dogs and shooting in the house, yet another reason to go suppressed.