Here's friendly advice. Be careful accusing people of committing crimes whose backgrounds you are totally unaware of, who just might have worked OCDETF and JTF cases, as well as other areas that have closer access to decision-makers than a low-level field agent who takes orders from the SAIC.
Without even saying anything, they could come across a thread like this and pull your FFL up, when you thought you were being cute.
See how that works? These guys don't care about the law. Think about it like mafia crime bosses with their racketeering thugs who go make the rounds.
They don't need a reason to pinch you for your assets and money, as they are told by SAICs to "Always Think Forfeiture". If they see a way to get your assets, and the mid level managers will back them up or outright order it, you're done. The appeals process is through an ATF court. Guess how many of their own decisions they have overturned....
There is a glass house with this, and I'm not throwing stones. Also, at no point will you read in the thread that this was an advertisement for services.
Asking an FFL dealer what the ATF's rules of the day is like asking a peasant on the block how much the racketeers will ask for this week in protection money.
Asking an FFL dealer in Idaho, who are under Seattle's regional control, what ATF thinks about anything is like asking the rabbit where the coyote is. Look up what ATF did to FFL's in Idaho in the 1990's. It was a slaughterhouse, especially for mom and pop shops. Nobody had the financial resources to fight the ATF rulings and US Attorneys in the ATF Court System, so they just lost everything, including inventory, homes...
It's the ATF guys.
Ridgerider Wrote:Hey Guys just a reminder that any person doing this type of work needs to be an ffl so if you want work like that done make sure they are an ffl. Have run into a few companies at gun shows offering Cerekote and dipping services who are not licensed FFl's so be warned.
No one is accusing anybody of anything just reminding the forum to obey the law and if a member requires that type of work then abide by the law for every bodies sake and use a licensed FFL.
LRRPF52 Wrote:Asking an FFL dealer what the ATF's rules of the day is like asking a peasant on the block how much the racketeers will ask for this week in protection money.
Asking an FFL dealer in Idaho, who are under Denver's regional control, what ATF thinks about anything is like asking the rabbit where the coyote is. Look up what ATF did to FFL's in Idaho in the 1990's. It was a slaughterhouse, especially for mom and pop shops. Nobody had the financial resources to fight the ATF rulings and US Attorneys in the ATF Court System, so they just lost everything, including inventory, homes...
It's the ATF guys.
Actually its Washington State
Why are we talking about the ATF in this thread? That's my question.
Roger on Seattle Fed office for Idaho, Denver for MT, UT, WY, ND, SD, CO. Gotta get da bosses straight, capiche.
They are criminals at the end of the day.
RIP Brian Terry
![[Image: Brian.jpg]](http://cdn.breitbart.com/mediaserver/Breitbart/Big-Government/2012/08/11/Brian.jpg)
Posts: 2,737
Threads: 44
Joined: Aug 2013
Oh, jeeze. I had a great Christmas. Anyone else?
LRRPF52 Wrote:Why are we talking about the ATF in this thread? That's my question.
Roger on Seattle Fed office for Idaho, Denver for MT, UT, WY, ND, SD, CO. Gotta get da bosses straight, capiche.
They are criminals at the end of the day.
RIP Brian Terry
Why are you getting your knickers in a twist and accusing people of being criminals when I and other forum members are just asking people to obey the ATF rulings and know that the person doing work on any gun for profit and anybody that receives a gun to work on for profit needs to be a FFL
Posts: 3,214
Threads: 215
Joined: Jun 2011
NugginFutz Wrote:Oh, jeeze. I had a great Christmas. Anyone else?
LOL yes I had a great Christmas, Back to drooling over Bill's rifle.
LRRP52---------- 
Posts: 2,737
Threads: 44
Joined: Aug 2013
bwaites Wrote:![[Image: b83h.jpg]](http://imageshack.us/a/img856/8687/b83h.jpg)
![[Image: v1ps.jpg]](http://imageshack.us/a/img689/7402/v1ps.jpg)
Wiping my chin with anything handy!!!
Posts: 504
Threads: 7
Joined: May 2013
montana Wrote:LOL yes I had a great Christmas, Back to drooling over Bill's rifle.
LRRP52----------
More EGGNOG anyone?
Posts: 1,717
Threads: 60
Joined: Feb 2013
I don't drink but just had me some eggnog icecream. Guess Christmas is in the past so we can start working on Happy New Year soon....
Happy New Year Ted and congrats on getting your FFL and there are 12 days of Christmas so it ends on the 6th jan thats my excuse anyway
Posts: 4,444
Threads: 97
Joined: Mar 2011
Wow, a few pictures sure stirred up a bunch of attitude.
To the best of my knowledge, NO ATF regulations, Federal or State laws were violated with the Cerakote on the weapon in the first post. The weapon never traveled anywhere by common courier.
There are some "more than gray" areas regarding painting, Cerakoting, and dipping of firearms, and I suspect that the ATF and some other Federal and State laws may actually be in contradiction. You may have noticed that even people with the correct licenses might not completely understand the laws relating to it. Having heard talks on this, I am comfortable that depending on who you talk to, you might get different answers at the ATF, just like you would if you ask a tax question at the IRS. Simply put, the laws are so stupidly complex that no one actually understands them.
There is some advice here on this thread that is incorrect, at least as it has been explained to me by various sources. (Once again, take anything you hear from an ATF spokesman with a grain of salt.) The only portion of a weapon considered to be a firearm is the serialized portion. This may be the lower receiver (as it is in the AR15), the upper receiver (as it is in some other semiauto firearms), the trigger group itself (some pistols), the sear itself, (which is a special case), etc.
Barrels are just fancy pipes, they don't constitute a firearm. They can be shipped USPS without any issues, just like AR grips, magazines, forearms, AR trigger groups, butt stocks, extensions, etc. ANY and all of these parts can be shipped to and from anyone. (Interestingly, I've been told that even convicted felons can deal in these parts, so long as NO serialized portions are ever present.) As it has been explained to me, all those parts can be dipped, painted, taped, or Cerakoted without any license whatsoever. You can buy many of these parts on Amazon, and I have done so from time to time. If no FFL is required to receive if from Amazon, or Midway, or Sinclair, etc., then you can send and receive at will to anyone.
The serialized portion requires more detail. As it has been explained to me, if someone is performing this as a service for profit, on a serialized receiver or other serialized part, then appropriate licenses must be obtained. A dealers license will generally suffice, though a manufacturers license might be necessary depending on assembly, reassembly, parts modifications, etc.
If someone is doing this service for friend, then the area becomes somewhat gray, because you are still allowed to loan Non-NFA items to friends who otherwise would be allowed to legally possess them. (Yes, I know that California, New York, Colorado, Massachusetts, etc. have some special regulations and laws, I am referring to states that are still FREE otherwise.)
Sometimes friends do nice things for each other, and if that friend were to decide to paint, tape, blue, or Cerakote your weapon for you as a gesture, then I strongly suspect that ATF would not have an issue with it. (Unless you were to do something stupid otherwise!)
Now, we are done discussing the ATF in my thread!
LOOK AT MY PURTY GUN!
You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live. - John Galt
Posts: 1,717
Threads: 60
Joined: Feb 2013
If that is your take on a barrel then you can cut it to what ever length you want because its just a pipe. Strange analogy but it is part of the firearm as I understand it, same as you said the trigger too. Alter the safety and sear can constitute an automatic weapon. Good luck explaining that one too.
I think the entire take on the point of an FFL and the Cerakoting, transporting to an individual for applying a finish or enhancing the finish has got convoluted in the trend just like the law is getting twisted.
Each person needs to be aware of there own decision with following the laws to the best of there ability and good luck.
And yes, the guns are nice, I have a Para 14-45 and those are great pistols, very accurate and reliable.
Sorry to interrupt, but can anyone tell me where to find a scope like the one pictured? It's the Nikon Tactical....
Posts: 4,444
Threads: 97
Joined: Mar 2011
jfornelli Wrote:Sorry to interrupt, but can anyone tell me where to find a scope like the one pictured? It's the Nikon Tactical....
Nikon changed the line after I bought that. It's now this, same scope:
http://www.nikonsportoptics.com/en/Nikon...ildot.html
Optics planet stocks them.
http://www.opticsplanet.com/nikon-monarc...scope.html
You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live. - John Galt
Posts: 4,444
Threads: 97
Joined: Mar 2011
12-29-2013, 03:49 AM
(This post was last modified: 12-29-2013, 03:55 AM by bwaites.)
Tedward Wrote:If that is your take on a barrel then you can cut it to what ever length you want because its just a pipe. Strange analogy but it is part of the firearm as I understand it, same as you said the trigger too. Alter the safety and sear can constitute an automatic weapon. Good luck explaining that one too.
I think the entire take on the point of an FFL and the Cerakoting, transporting to an individual for applying a finish or enhancing the finish has got convoluted in the trend just like the law is getting twisted.
Each person needs to be aware of there own decision with following the laws to the best of there ability and good luck.
And yes, the guns are nice, I have a Para 14-45 and those are great pistols, very accurate and reliable.
You CAN cut it to any length you want. If you attach it to a RIFLE receiver, that rifle better not have a buttstock and better fit the description of a pistol. BUT, until you attach it to a receiver, it can be any length at all!
Altered sears can fall under NFA, and fullauto sears and safeties are a completely different ball game than non NFA pieces.
We are talking about parts and pieces you can order online and have shipped directly to you, and any of those can be shipped to anyone else to have coatings applied.
Once you introduce a serial numbered part or an NFA part, (which are also all supposed to be serialized at this point) the rules change. No serial number, no NFA part, no problem.
You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live. - John Galt
Diane Feinstein submitted legislation that follows the description of Tedward and Ridgerider, i.e. Quality Arms of Idaho.
It was defeated by a significant margin in the Senate earlier this year, by the upper house of the Legislative Branch of the United States, and wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of even getting out of committee in the lower house.
That bill aimed to regulate basically every part of a firearm, aside from the serialized receiver. No LEO or court has grounds to stand on by attempting to regulate any parts other than the serialized receiver.
Happy holidays, and thanks for the compliments.
bwaites Wrote:Nikon changed the line after I bought that. It's now this, same scope:
http://www.nikonsportoptics.com/en/Nikon...ildot.html
Optics planet stocks them.
http://www.opticsplanet.com/nikon-monarc...scope.html
Thanks. The one in your pic is pretty long at the objective. The newer one in the urls you provided are no longer like that.
Anyway, I just thought that looked cool but I don't truly *need* it.
|
