Tell us about your Midwayusa AR Stoner barrel.

[XcountryRider]

I'm curious about other people experiences with AR Stoner barrels. I had two of my Grendels hooked up to a chrony for the first time today and i was getting unusually fast velocities. I need more chrony time with various loads to get a clearer picture of my speeds but they look pretty good. How is your AR Stoner barrel barrel? Any experiences to share?

[Bwild97]

Put some factory Hornady over your chrono, that will give you a good baseline to judge the hand loads by. Factory loaded AMAXs are reported at 2594 fps avg. (24" brl.) from my Gamma Master Chrony, 14 fps faster than published velocities on the box. My barrel is a 24" Bull, E.R. Shaw 1-9 twist.

[XcountryRider]

Yes we thought of that after we packed up today. We did compare the same loads in a different Grendel and the results where right on as expected for the loads shot in his Grendel.

[XcountryRider]

Midwayusa AR Stoner barrel is an ER Shaw barrel is it not?

[Bwild97]

I think MidwayUsa will put their name on any barrel they can source at a lower cost, no matter who produced it.

[Drifter]

Midwayusa AR Stoner barrel is an ER Shaw barrel is it not?

At some point in time, they were believed to be made by Liberty (now a part of Satern). Not sure about current ARS barrels...

[Tedward]

I have a 24" AR-Stoner marked 5R. It's hooked up to a LOKI Billet lower with a Modified DPMS Low Profile Upper. I still have the Loki Upper with the forward assist but not using that right now. I finally got a 2-7x35 Vortex Scope that I actually got for my Wylde and am getting 1" MOA at 150 yards. Thats as far as I've taken it out in the back field. At 100 yards I can get 1/2moa and then a flier here and there. I'm new to shooting it so still learning so the groups are tightening up. I talked to the owner Jim Baron at Quality Arms and he says the 5R is a great button cut and has won many compensations. I don't actually know that for sure but it was the Grendel than I was able to get back in March and Midway was the only one who had it. For a few hours and I got one. Also just got a 16" the other day from Midway, it pooped up for I guess the minute i looked because they were sold out right after I ordered it. This will be my "Hunting in the woods rifle" because the 24" is pretty heavy.

My son met a guy at work the other week who is highly into 308 Bolt guns. The old guy, as my son described him, has rights to a 1000 yard range at Quantico Marine Base here in VA. I plan to go with him in the next few weeks for tips and to use his Chronograph to get the speeds. I am only using factory Hornady AMAX and SST in 123gr. I'll let you know how it does and trying to find some 129gr but seems as if they need to be hand loads. Not sure if it will be better but was thinking the heavy bullet will knock down deer better but will be trying the 123 SST's this year.

[XcountryRider]

I got my Ar Stoner in that window as well. Actually two separate shipments came in a couple weeks apart and got both during that period. Sure would like to hear from others that have chronyied loads.

[Tedward]

I got my Ar Stoner in that window as well. Actually two separate shipments came in a couple weeks apart and got both during that period. Sure would like to hear from others that have chronyied loads.

What period (date) and what length did you get? Have you chronyied and of yours?

[XcountryRider]

I got them in Feb and Mar and both were 24 in and had one cut to 18in. My velocities are around 130 to 150fps faster than they should be for both rifles so need more chrony time to test various loads and factory ammo. When i chrony again i'll post up velocities. Right now people will think i'm nuts.

[Tedward]

I tell ya that gut at Quality Arms will speak highly of the 5R so give him a call, he loves to talk Grendel. He has some good info, just have some time when you call because if you get him at 10:00 (eastern time) he is ready to go.... talks about 1,200 yard or meter shots they do but consider the air is thin where he is and that makes a big difference according to him. He knows a lot about powders, burn times, barrel length and altitude changes in projector.

read soon....

[Drifter]

My velocities are around 130 to 150fps faster than they should be for both rifles so need more chrony time to test various loads and factory ammo. When i chrony again i'll post up velocities. Right now people will think i'm nuts.

That's quite a bit of extra speed. If it comes at the expense of added pressure, the loads might not be safe. Exercise caution.

If possible, try some loads through your chrony where the speeds are known or predictable, preferably with a different rifle and ammo that are known to be safe.

If you haven't already, check your chamber for COL and make sure that your ammo is tailored accordingly.

Err on the safe side until you get a better understanding of what's happening.

[XcountryRider]

Drifter the same ammo was shot through a 24in barrel with expected velocities. Note taken though and i'll be careful. We plan on doing more measurements to confirm. As i say both my Grendels with Ar Stoner barrels had this same extra velocity.

[Tedward]

That's quite a bit of extra speed. If it comes at the expense of added pressure, the loads might not be safe. Exercise caution.

If possible, try some loads through your chrony where the speeds are known or predictable, preferably with a different rifle and ammo that are known to be safe.

If you haven't already, check your chamber for COL and make sure that your ammo is tailored accordingly.

Err on the safe side until you get a better understanding of what's happening.

I'll be running factory so we can compare the same 24" 5R Stoner and see how much he is getting from his than mine. I hope to have my 16" MLGS Stoner ready to go by then too. just need a comp in 9/16-24. Don't want the Heli-Port Muzzle Break they offer, I want some recoil help. I think someone has a trnd here on them offered in SS and Black but need to see how his turns out and might go that way. So getting the 16" finished might take longer to get than me getting to use a Chrony.

[XcountryRider]

I did a little googleing and it seems the consensus is that AR Stoner barrels are ER Shaw barrels. Ar they faster than average barrels is the question i have.

[LRRPF52]

Velocity will vary from barrel to barrel, even from consecutive barrels from the same manufacturer machined on the same tooling. Midway usually expects a 50% margin on their products, so do the math based on their pricing and you can get an idea of where they might be sourcing the "AR-Stoner" pipes from.

When I see a lot of their 5.56 barrels for $159.99, $119.99, or even $104.99, then figure-in even a 30% margin, there's no way those barrels are made in the US or Western/Central/Northern Europe. We're either looking at Central America or Asia is my best guess. Try to market a product to any of the big online distributors with 30% margins and see where that gets you, then ask yourself what margins they are going for on their own product line (at least 50%).

The next question I have for myself is, if they are willing to source barrels from Asia for 5.56, are they doing the same thing for the "6.5 Grendel" AR-Stoner barrels, and just upping the margins to 300% since they know they will fly off the shelf before they can even get them in, regardless if the leade in the chamber is short and definitely not a Grendel chamber?

Does that mean they are automatically crappy barrels? Not at all. Elisco Tool Manufacturing Company of the Philippines has been making M16 barrels and components for decades, originally under license contract from US State Dept./Colt. I'm the type of consumer who likes to know these things, but there is no way Midway is going to unzip the lip about where their AR-Stoner brand barrels and other parts are sourced from.

If anyone doubts that Asian barrels and AR15 parts are in the market, I've seen Dirtier than Cheap openly advertise $99 "M4" barrels in their catalog, and have seen distributor online catalog pages for AR15 parts, including sub-standard uppers, BCG's, LPK's, fasteners, etc. from Taiwan. If you go crack open your upper and look at your BCG, most of your carrier key fasteners will say "YFS" on them, which means the fasteners were manufactured in Taiwan, and are not anywhere near spec for USGI domestic mfg Grade 8 fasteners. With the right assembly procedures and tools, you can still achieve a long-lasting and reliable gas key seal with them, but the threads vary more in dia. towards the smaller side than USGI domestic mfg Grade 8 fasteners.

Same goes for carrier keys and every other part in the AR15. There are precious few AR15's on the market that have anything close to what's in a true Mil-Spec gun as far as materials selection, manufacturing processes, QC'ing and inspecting, and proofing goes.

I guess the thing that bothers me about the AR-Stoner barrels is that they are clearly not using a Grendel reamers based on the measurements several forum members have posted with regard to maximum COL (the leade is shorter), but they still feel that it's ok to advertise them as such, when the Grendel chamber is a SAAMI spec and any huge outfit like Midway can invest in Grendel reamers like the next guy.

The main thing is to be aware of your variant chamber's limitations, and load your COL and charges based on that. I still wish they would just have whatever sweat shop that is cranking these out at least use a Grendel reamer.

Update
Before the internet, you hoped you would be steered right by your family, local gun store owner, gun smiths, and industry reps. Since the internet, we're flooded with information that is easy to send without checking the veracity of it, so we need a filter that follows some type of logic. It's clear from my post about certain 5.56 barrels being from overseas under that name brand, that one could interpret or perceive that I was suggesting that their Grendel barrels might be from some 3rd world country. For that I am truly sorry if they are in fact Made in the USA. Just understand that I have been trying to get a straight answer as a potential customer for the same products, and have not received that answer after seriously searching for at least 2 years, to include inquiring from industry reps and other professionals who would know from my contacts at SHOT and elsewhere.

[XcountryRider]

Hmm theres no evidense they are produced by child labor in a sweatshop in the PI.

[XcountryRider]

Midwayusa just confirmed to me that they are made in the USA.

[Tedward]

Velocity will vary from barrel to barrel, even from consecutive barrels from the same manufacturer machined on the same tooling. Midway usually expects a 50% margin on their products, so do the math based on their pricing and you can get an idea of where they might be sourcing the "AR-Stoner" pipes from.

When I see a lot of their 5.56 barrels for $159.99, $119.99, or even $104.99, then figure-in even a 30% margin, there's no way those barrels are made in the US or Western/Central/Northern Europe. We're either looking at Central America or Asia is my best guess. Try to market a product to any of the big online distributors with 30% margins and see where that gets you, then ask yourself what margins they are going for on their own product line (at least 50%).

The next question I have for myself is, if they are willing to source barrels from Asia for 5.56, are they doing the same thing for the "6.5 Grendel" AR-Stoner barrels, and just upping the margins to 300% since they know they will fly off the shelf before they can even get them in, regardless if the leade in the chamber is short and definitely not a Grendel chamber?

Does that mean they are automatically crappy barrels? Not at all. Elisco Tool Manufacturing Company of the Philippines has been making M16 barrels and components for decades, originally under license contract from US State Dept./Colt. I'm the type of consumer who likes to know these things, but there is no way Midway is going to unzip the lip about where their AR-Stoner brand barrels and other parts are sourced from.

If anyone doubts that Asian barrels and AR15 parts are in the market, I've seen Dirtier than Cheap openly advertise $99 "M4" barrels in their catalog, and have seen distributor online catalog pages for AR15 parts, including sub-standard uppers, BCG's, LPK's, fasteners, etc. from Taiwan. If you go crack open your upper and look at your BCG, most of your carrier key fasteners will say "YFS" on them, which means the fasteners were manufactured in Taiwan, and are not anywhere near spec for USGI domestic mfg Grade 8 fasteners. With the right assembly procedures and tools, you can still achieve a long-lasting and reliable gas key seal with them, but the threads vary more in dia. towards the smaller side than USGI domestic mfg Grade 8 fasteners.

Same goes for carrier keys and every other part in the AR15. There are precious few AR15's on the market that have anything close to what's in a true Mil-Spec gun as far as materials selection, manufacturing processes, QC'ing and inspecting, and proofing goes.

I guess the thing that bothers me about the AR-Stoner barrels is that they are clearly not using a Grendel reamers based on the measurements several forum members have posted with regard to maximum COL (the leade is shorter), but they still feel that it's ok to advertise them as such, when the Grendel chamber is a SAAMI spec and any huge outfit like Midway can invest in Grendel reamers like the next guy.

The main thing is to be aware of your variant chamber's limitations, and load your COL and charges based on that. I still wish they would just have whatever sweat shop that is cranking these out at least use a Grendel reamer.

Pretty harsh statement. I just had to go look at the MIDWAY site to clear my head on that. Midway sells Shilen, JP Rifle, Noveske, AR-Stoner, Adams-Arms and all with bolts. If you search just barrels you find all of those plus Krieger, DPMS, Del-Ton and more.

As for the CHEAP AR-Stoners in 223, $104.00 was the cheapest one without a bolt as you said. Next was a DPMS, VooDoo ??, Model 1 and a couple more but back to higher prices, above $200 and name brand.

I have seen regular ol $50 M4 barrels on other sites and not sure of there reputation or source. Asian or South American, maybe but its a led slinger for 50 to 100 feet. worth it.

So calling Midway out like that I feel is pretty unfair and sometimes they get defective parts from there sources. I saw the post about the NibX bolt I think you got so is that another reason for bad feelings toward Midway? Guess you can feel how you want. Stating the source location without proof is not good conduct, but I guess an opinion as you said this is yours. A lot of people look up to your opinion on this site which makes it a bias statement. Do you have stock in Brownells could be a question to some??

My Stoner Grendel shoots great to me but I'm not you and I also didn't spend +$500 on a Shilen, JP Rifle or Noveske. Speaking to reliable source I think the AR-Stoner is a Liberty because a Grendel distributor told me that. When I called him and said I have an AR-Stoner 24" Barrel and bolt, he said, did it come in a white box with 3 red stripes of packing tape? I said yes. He said look at the marking, is it 5R, I said yes. He said he just received his shipment of Liberty Barrels and they are in the same package and marked just the same.

Not in a Chinese bamboo crate or South of the border burlap bag.

As for Midway using Grendel Reamers, they are a distributor and use nothing, so if there supplier is using incorrect machinery tools then they need to know so they can notify there supplier to make sure they meet SAAMI spec. If they get them from Liberty, it is Liberties responsibility to use the correct SAAMI spec. Who's to say any of this is true unless it is sent to a third part certified machine/gun shop. They can contact Midway directly to resolve these accusations. Now I'm taking my brand new unfired Grendel AR-Stoner to a Gunsmith down the road, I live in Norther VA and there are hundreds, and they are going to check the measurements. If they are off, I will be contacting Midway and follow up.

Again, pretty harsh comment. Now I'm going to find out the correct information and document it.

Thats what I THINK!!

[Ridgerider]

Velocity will vary from barrel to barrel, even from consecutive barrels from the same manufacturer machined on the same tooling. Midway usually expects a 50% margin on their products, so do the math based on their pricing and you can get an idea of where they might be sourcing the "AR-Stoner" pipes from.

When I see a lot of their 5.56 barrels for $159.99, $119.99, or even $104.99, then figure-in even a 30% margin, there's no way those barrels are made in the US or Western/Central/Northern Europe. We're either looking at Central America or Asia is my best guess. Try to market a product to any of the big online distributors with 30% margins and see where that gets you, then ask yourself what margins they are going for on their own product line (at least 50%).

The next question I have for myself is, if they are willing to source barrels from Asia for 5.56, are they doing the same thing for the "6.5 Grendel" AR-Stoner barrels, and just upping the margins to 300% since they know they will fly off the shelf before they can even get them in, regardless if the leade in the chamber is short and definitely not a Grendel chamber?

Does that mean they are automatically crappy barrels? Not at all. Elisco Tool Manufacturing Company of the Philippines has been making M16 barrels and components for decades, originally under license contract from US State Dept./Colt. I'm the type of consumer who likes to know these things, but there is no way Midway is going to unzip the lip about where their AR-Stoner brand barrels and other parts are sourced from.

If anyone doubts that Asian barrels and AR15 parts are in the market, I've seen Dirtier than Cheap openly advertise $99 "M4" barrels in their catalog, and have seen distributor online catalog pages for AR15 parts, including sub-standard uppers, BCG's, LPK's, fasteners, etc. from Taiwan. If you go crack open your upper and look at your BCG, most of your carrier key fasteners will say "YFS" on them, which means the fasteners were manufactured in Taiwan, and are not anywhere near spec for USGI domestic mfg Grade 8 fasteners. With the right assembly procedures and tools, you can still achieve a long-lasting and reliable gas key seal with them, but the threads vary more in dia. towards the smaller side than USGI domestic mfg Grade 8 fasteners.

Same goes for carrier keys and every other part in the AR15. There are precious few AR15's on the market that have anything close to what's in a true Mil-Spec gun as far as materials selection, manufacturing processes, QC'ing and inspecting, and proofing goes.

I guess the thing that bothers me about the AR-Stoner barrels is that they are clearly not using a Grendel reamers based on the measurements several forum members have posted with regard to maximum COL (the leade is shorter), but they still feel that it's ok to advertise them as such, when the Grendel chamber is a SAAMI spec and any huge outfit like Midway can invest in Grendel reamers like the next guy.

The main thing is to be aware of your variant chamber's limitations, and load your COL and charges based on that. I still wish they would just have whatever sweat shop that is cranking these out at least use a Grendel reamer.

Most of the AR Stoner barrels I have seen of late are engraved 5R which is 5R rifling and Bartlein Barrels use 5R rifling and competitors have won many competitions in Europe using 5R barrels. Liberty sells a 300 blackout barrel all be it for just over $200 which again is a 5R barrel and the font and size of font they use looks suspiciously like the font used on the Stoner barrels. Now you say a .556 barrel for $99 cannot passably be made in the USA so therefore in your opinion they are made either in Central America or Asia. Now thats the answer its your opinion and you would be so wrong as you cannot or will back up that statement with facts just an opinion and we all know about opinions. May I suggest that you and everybody look at this site http://esssolution.com/gun_and_rifle_parts you wont see distributor pricing but I can tell you from experience that a stripped .556 barrel or a 7.62x39 barrel is a lot less than $99 if you buy more than 10 and those that want the price just call them and they will give you the details on how to get there pricing.

Now to say parts are coming from abroad I will have to admit that I have been approached by part makers from Taiwan but have not and will not take them up on their offer and I doubt that any reputable company would use parts from these sources to save a few cents.(but I may be wrong when well known companies sell injection molded plastic guns and call them carbon fiber) But many after market products like scopes etc come from abroad even your Nightforces are made in Japan now. So because a company sells a product cheaper than another we cannot assume that they are coming from a place other than the USA. Some people and companies believe in S.P.Q.R which translates to small profit quick return. So please if you have information on what distributors are selling these inferior products please enlighten us all so that we may share your experience with others.