New Executive Orders from the Kenyan

[Nukes]

http://www.examiner.com/article/after-se...regulation

[montana]

I guess trying to get his illegal gun grabs through the legislature doesn't work he will just use his new emperor dictates to accomplish his will.

[Nukes]

As best I can discern, as long as they have cable TV and food stamps, the majority are content.

[BjornF16]

Do you really believe that he is not a US citizen?

[bwaites]

Do you really believe that he is not a US citizen?

I believe he was probably born in Hawaii. However, I also believe he used foreign citizenship to apply to schools, (thus the reason he has refused to allow us to see his college transcripts), and I believe he has used foreign citizenship to further his agenda, (ie. when his book was being shopped to publishers, his agent identified him as Kenyan!).

That creates a real issue in my eyes. Was he lying to take advantage of offers to foreign students, thus revealing a willingness to perjure himself to get gain then? Or is he lying now about his citizenship, and he really is a foreigner?

I also would really like to see if he registered for Selective Service as an 18-20 year old. Since he was born after 1960, he was required to register. No one that I can find has ever addressed that issue. If he didn't register, he could only have done so and received financial aid as a foreign student.

If he registered, he couldn't have received aid as a foreign student and there would be no reason to not open his records.

[BjornF16]

Really directed at the OP, but nonetheless, you didn't answer the question;-)

[bwaites]

Really directed at the OP, but nonetheless, you didn't answer the question;-)

I know, on both counts.

I can't decide because the evidence is not conclusive. I believe it is intentionally misleading, however. In that case, there is smoke, and where there is smoke, there is, most often, fire!

[BjornF16]

If a US citizen gives birth to a child in a foreign country, what citizenship does the child have?

[stanc]

If a US citizen gives birth to a child in a foreign country, what citizenship does the child have?

One of my siblings was born (to US citizens) in Europe, and is legally a US citizen by birth.

[cory]

Do you really believe that he is not a US citizen?

Do you really believe that he is? Why do you think he's spent so much money hiding his transcripts? How do you think he got into the prestigious Ivy League schools he attended? He attended as a foreign national. The bar for admittance is much lower for a foreign national in the interest of college diversity.

[stanc]

Do you really believe that he is?

It doesn't matter whether anyone believes he is or isn't a citizen. Nobody has been able to prove he isn't, and in the absence of such proof he will likely complete his term of office.

[bwaites]

If a US citizen gives birth to a child in a foreign country, what citizenship does the child have?

US, and depending on the foreign country, citizenship there as well. My brother was born in Iceland, has a US passport as a US citizen, but Iceland recognizes him as Icelandic by birth, and won't issue a visa, because they recognize him as a citizen.

However, if he were to apply as a foreigner to a US school, and accept aid as a foreigner, his US citizenship could be revoked and then the question of citizenship becomes real.

[TheOTHERmaninblack]

US, and depending on the foreign country, citizenship there as well. My brother was born in Iceland, has a US passport as a US citizen, but Iceland recognizes him as Icelandic by birth, and won't issue a visa, because they recognize him as a citizen.

However, if he were to apply as a foreigner to a US school, and accept aid as a foreigner, his US citizenship could be revoked and then the question of citizenship becomes real.

I actually looked this up at one point early in the debate. A child born (according to the State Department website) of one US citizen and one foreign national, born outside the borders of the US is NOT AUTOMATICALLY a US citizen. The parent holding US citizenship is required to present the child and any birth records to the nearest US consulate at the earliest possible time and declare a desire for the child to be a US citizen. Barring this presentation, at least so far as State would have you believe, the child holds either the foreign national parent's or the country of birth's citizenship.


With all of the shenanigans going on, I suspect that li'l Barry might well have been born overseas, and, rather than presenting him to a consulate (for whatever reason) mommy reddest hopped a plane to Hawaii and presented him to the hospital for a proof of live birth certificate, which was fairly common back then, as there were still many home births, particularly in the hinterlands.

Do I think he's a citizen? Of course, though I also think that his birth, like almost his entire life, was colored by rule skirting, purposeful misdirection, and not a little outright cheating.

Hell, I have a friend who was born in a jail in North Dakota where his parents had gotten stranded trying to make their way to the hospital in a raging blizzard. He has a bail ticket rather than a birth certificate, though he also has a certificate of live birth from when they finally got him to the hospital. Sadly, the bail ticket seems to have colored his life far more than the hospital form.

[BjornF16]

Do you really believe that he is? Why do you think he's spent so much money hiding his transcripts? How do you think he got into the prestigious Ivy League schools he attended? He attended as a foreign national. The bar for admittance is much lower for a foreign national in the interest of college diversity.

I know he is. His mother was a U.S. citizen…all her life. By default, that makes Barry, Obama (or whatever name he wants to go by) a U.S. citizen. See http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw..._1753.html

Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth.

A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

I suspect the real story is that Barry (aka Barrack) committed fraud when applying for college grant/scholarship (see Bwaites at post #5)…or perhaps even had dual citizenship by virtue of his father's citizenship or even by his mother's marriage to his stepfather. Nonetheless, as a "natural born US citizen" by virtue of his mother, he qualifies for president.

Espousing "birther" hypothesis is essentially the same as espousing the goof ball 9/11 "truther" conspiracy. It undermines one's credibility with most everyone except other moronic birthers/truthers.

[BjornF16]

However, if he were to apply as a foreigner to a US school, and accept aid as a foreigner, his US citizenship could be revoked and then the question of citizenship becomes real.

That is not correct. The US actually recognizes dual citizenship. In your brothers case, nothing would happen to his US citizenship by applying to a private institution of learning.

From the State Dept.:

Potentially Expatriating Acts

Section 349 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1481), as amended, states that U.S. citizens are subject to loss of citizenship if they perform certain specified acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship. Briefly stated, these acts include:

obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon one's own application after the age of 18 (Sec. 349 (a) (1) INA);
taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or its political subdivisions after the age of 18 (Sec. 349 (a) (2) INA);
entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the U.S. or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (3) INA);
accepting employment with a foreign government after the age of 18 if (a) one has the nationality of that foreign state or (b) an oath or declaration of allegiance is required in accepting the position (Sec. 349 (a) (4) INA);
formally renouncing U.S. citizenship before a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer outside the United States (sec. 349 (a) (5) INA);
formally renouncing U.S. citizenship within the U.S. (The Department of Homeland Security is responsible for implementing this section of the law) (Sec. 349 (a) (6) INA);
conviction for an act of treason (Sec. 349 (a) (7) INA).

Note that applying to a private institution of learning does not qualify as an "expatriating act".

[BjornF16]

I actually looked this up at one point early in the debate. A child born (according to the State Department website) of one US citizen and one foreign national, born outside the borders of the US is NOT AUTOMATICALLY a US citizen. The parent holding US citizenship is required to present the child and any birth records to the nearest US consulate at the earliest possible time and declare a desire for the child to be a US citizen. Barring this presentation, at least so far as State would have you believe, the child holds either the foreign national parent's or the country of birth's citizenship.

Incorrect. US citizenship is AUTOMATICALLY conferred, even if only one parent is US citizen. The reason for the consular report is to show an official record of claim to citizenship, not to initiate some process to gain citizenship. This avoids potentially any legal questions over citizenship or not.

See http://travel.state.gov/law/family_issue...h_593.html

Consular Report of Birth Abroad (FS-240)

The birth of a child abroad to U.S. citizen parent(s) should be reported as soon as possible so that a Consular Report of Birth Abroad can be issued as an official record of the child’s claim to U.S. citizenship. Report the birth of your child abroad at the nearest U.S. embassy or consulate.

A Consular Report of Birth can only be created at an American consular office overseas while the child is under age 18
An original Consular Report of Birth is given to the parent(s) at the time the report of birth is made and approved.
You may replace, amend or request multiple copies of a Consular Report of Birth at any time.

Note there is no time limit other than child's age of 18 YEARS.

If you are going to cite US law/policy, then at least offer a reference, link and/or quote to back your claim.

[montana]

So we have to charge the prez as a traitor instead of an enemy combatant ?

[BjornF16]

So we have to charge the prez as a trader instead of an enemy combatant ?

LOL…as a trader of what?…or do you mean traitor?

Unfortunately, i think the statute of limitations for "fraud" regarding any grants for college have long since expired. But it certainly would undermine his credibility if exposed, which is why those records are sealed.

I do believe that he could be at risk of impeachment if Congress swings well right in 2014. His blatant disregard for the Constitution (which he swore to uphold and defend) could be problematic for him.

[montana]

LOL…as a trader of what?…or do you mean traitor?

Unfortunately, i think the statute of limitations for "fraud" regarding any grants for college have long since expired. But it certainly would undermine his credibility if exposed, which is why those records are sealed.

I do believe that he could be at risk of impeachment if Congress swings well right in 2014. His blatant disregard for the Constitution (which he swore to uphold and defend) could be problematic for him.

I meant traitor, had a brain fart.The problem is the lying and deception. This is why I said in my past comments trust is hard to come by," trust but verify". If a person lies one time he is no longer trust worthy.
You do not believe in conspiracy theories but is this not in itself a conspiracy? Definition of a conspiracy :

1. a secret plan or agreement to carry out an illegal or harmful act, esp with political motivation; plot
2. the act of making such plans in secret

[BjornF16]

I meant traitor, had a brain fart.The problem is the lying and deception. This is why I said in my past comments trust is hard to come by," trust but verify". If a person lies one time he is no longer trust worthy.
You do not believe in conspiracy theories but is this not in itself a conspiracy? Definition of a conspiracy :

1. a secret plan or agreement to carry out an illegal or harmful act, esp with political motivation; plot
2. the act of making such plans in secret

Semantics. You are technically correct in the sense of "conspiracy to commit fraud" in law terms. My usage is more of the pop culture use…perhaps "grand conspiracy" would be a better term.

The term "conspiracy theory" is used to indicate a narrative genre that includes a broad selection of (not necessarily related) arguments for the existence of grand conspiracies.[1] The term is frequently used by scholars and in popular culture to identify secret military, banking, or political actions aimed at "stealing" power, money, or freedom, from "the people".[citation needed] Conspiracy theories are based on the notion that complex plots are put into motion by powerful hidden forces.[2] Less illustrious uses refer to folklore and urban legend and a variety of explanatory narratives which are constructed with methodological flaws or biases.[3] Originally a neutral term, since the mid-1960s it has acquired a somewhat derogatory meaning, implying a paranoid tendency to see the influence of some malign covert agency in events.[4] The term is sometimes used to automatically dismiss claims that are deemed ridiculous, misconceived, paranoid, unfounded, outlandish or irrational.[5][page needed] A proven conspiracy theory, such as the notion that United States President Richard Nixon and his aides were behind the Watergate break-in and cover-up, is usually referred to as something else, such as investigative journalism or historical analysis.[6][7]

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory

My MAIN point is this: There is plenty of material with which to criticize, even potentially impeach, this president without resorting to irrational theories which do nothing more than undermine one's credibility, thus damaging any credible argument/point they may have.