The DHS has placed a 2 million dollar order for full sized color targets of kids, grandma, grandpa, pregnant lady, teenaged girls and so on. this is so repulsive and disgusting I am speechless.
This is the agency that was conceived post 911 to protect America from within against terrorism. why are they not shooting at pictures of terrorist targets? Kind of ironic, don't you think... Training to do what they are sworn to prevent.
We are living in strange times....
http://www.infowars.com/law-enforcement-...ant-women/
They probably use them as "NO SHOOT" training aids.. They have to have some way of deteremining the good guys and the bad. They can't just train to shoot everyone in a room to clear it. If they did it sure would suck to be a hostage.
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They were more like a caution to not get locked on a paradigm of what demographic a threat is. There has already been a thread on this, and the consensus was folk here were outraged.
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02-24-2013, 01:24 AM
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2013, 01:25 AM by cory.)
I showed these to a Marine Buddy of mine and he made a valid point that training with these targets will prevent the FLEO's from hesitating in real world scenarios.
While that is very true, this isn't a WAR ZONE, yet, they're training to operate stateside. I want the FLEO's and LEO's hestitating when pregnant women and children are involved! Deadly force should always be their last resort especially when children born or unborn are involved.
I know exactly what I'm asking, I'm asking them to put themselves further into harms way. They all knew exactly what they were signing up for, just as I knew when I took my oath that I was signing up to put myself directly in harms way and give my life, if need be, for Liberty and the Constitution.
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security, deserve neither." Benjamin Franklin
terrywick4 Wrote:They probably use them as "NO SHOOT" training aids.. They have to have some way of deteremining the good guys and the bad. They can't just train to shoot everyone in a room to clear it. If they did it sure would suck to be a hostage.
I wish that were the case but theses were called "no more hesitation" targets.
A company which received $2 million dollars from the DHS has apologized and taken offline no more hesitation shooting targets which depicted pregnant women, children, and elderly gun owners in residential settings as non-traditional threats, following an online uproar.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/dhs-contract...ldren.html
why do you think they call them "no more hesitation"? If they just train with only bad guys in the scenario's then go into a live situation with hostages then do you think the agent with hesitate on each person? They need the training aids to help them train thier brains to distinguish quickly to shoot or not to shoot.
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I think there is another thread dedicated to these targets with examples. I can understand the frustration/horror some may view these targets. I can also appreciate the value they add in training LEO. Granted, I don’t want LEO to shoot at pregnant women or children – any more than I would want to do the same – but a threat is a threat. If someone points a gun at me, they are a threat. I will defend myself against anyone who is a threat – regardless of gender, age or race. If that makes me a callous animal, so be it. I would imagine that the LEOs who train with these targets look at it the same way.
Guess I’m an equal opportunity a**hole.
I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it.
- Voltaire
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The problem here is that when you are a cop your first concern is the people you serve. Like a mother that protects her child with her own body in an accident. You can come up with hundreds of examples of teacher, fathers ect. where people protect those under their care. Here we have an example of the mother protecting herself with the child. Better them than me taking any chance. This is the mind set of the people that we deal with in Iraq and Afganistan where the women and children are put out front, and it doesn't matter if a few are lost. This idea is so sick!
If a Leo does not hesitate before shooting one these so called no hesitation targets, he has something wrong with him, and has been successfully desensitized. I would like to know how many gun fights an agent lost the drop to a 10 yr boy or a pregnant lady, or school girl? How many times do you think a fed agency has said, "wow I wished we had practiced more no hesitation drills on grandma". I wonder how the Feds would appreciate local gun ranges running no hesitation drills on life sized fed agents. There is no difference, both scenarios are just as ludicrous.
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The name "No Hesitation" is unfortunate for sure. These could have a utility however, but it isn't to prime folk to just shoot whenever they see a weapon no matter the context. The idea that one could just scan right past these images and only see a clear quarter could be a serious tactical problem as well.
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smoke13 Wrote:I wonder how the Feds would appreciate local gun ranges running no hesitation drills on life sized fed agents. There is no difference, both scenarios are just as ludicrous.
Are you crazy? We'd be arrested and charged with a felony. You must have this place mistaken for a free country. :/
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security, deserve neither." Benjamin Franklin
I personally choose not to feed into the divide and conquer game that is being played between the populace and LEO's. We need to work with LEO's more, as most of them have zero intentions of hosing down pregnant women and elderly law-abiding citizens. Let's be real here.
The question is: "Who is instigating the fear campaign between Law Enforcement public servants and the public?" These guys & gals deal with society's worst on a daily basis, only to see rapists, murderers, burglars, and child molesters run through the revolving door of the justice system. They all have families like everyone else.
What kind of sick person would ask a company to print targets like this, with only one ethnic group represented (racist)? That's what I want to know.
LRRPF52 Wrote:I personally choose not to feed into the divide and conquer game that is being played between the populace and LEO's. We need to work with LEO's more, as most of them have zero intentions of hosing down pregnant women and elderly law-abiding citizens. Let's be real here.
The question is: "Who is instigating the fear campaign between Law Enforcement public servants and the public?" These guys & gals deal with society's worst on a daily basis, only to see rapists, murderers, burglars, and child molesters run through the revolving door of the justice system. They all have families like everyone else.
What kind of sick person would ask a company to print targets like this, with only one ethnic group represented (racist)? That's what I want to know.
I agree with your theory that we need to strengthen our ties with local law enforcement so that we can stand together in strength in numbers when the time come. And the time is coming. I have several Leo friends and have respect for their role and duty in protecting our society from the evil around us.
On the other hand their are forces at work at the federal level that we must be aware of. Fast and furious is one example. This topic of "no hesitation targets" sheds light into the mentality at the federal level. When you combine this shoot first ask questions later training tactic to the recent order for 2 billion rounds and the pending gun grab legislation, you can understand why everyday law abiding Leo respecting people are starting to get really nervous what the dhs has planned that we don't know about.
They're all holding guns, theyre all non traditional targets and unless i missed it in the thread no ones mentioned the fact that they re all white. Everybody knows that its All White Honky's that are Terrorists, just ask Janet Napolitano and Diane Frankenstein. This sh*t makes me sick, if they want a fight pick sides and lets get to it. Im tired of being the whipping boy for all these useless Commie , Warmongering Politicians, if they want some come get some!
Quote:Im tired of being the whipping boy for all these useless Commie , Warmongering Politicians, if they want some come get some!
The commies know that they wouldn't stand a chance fighting us on our terms, so they use death by a thousand cuts on a slow bleed pathway to eventual tyranny. The "leak" of this targetry contract for DHS is designed to agitate you, get you upset, with hopes that you do something stupid.
" Ah ha! See. Look at these extremists! We told you they were nuts! This is why we need common sense gun control and the ability to go through your stuff without warrants, can't you agree..."
You have to beat them at their own game. For example, the word I have is that there are "No Hesitation" targets with welfare queens on them holding Obama phones, surrounded by babies from multiple daddy's, as well as targets with poor undocumented guests and their families, but those weren't leaked yet.
LRRPF52 Wrote:The commies know that they wouldn't stand a chance fighting us on our terms, so they use death by a thousand cuts on a slow bleed pathway to eventual tyranny. The "leak" of this targetry contract for DHS is designed to agitate you, get you upset, with hopes that you do something stupid.
"Ah ha! See. Look at these extremists! We told you they were nuts! This is why we need common sense gun control and the ability to go through your stuff without warrants, can't you agree..."
You have to beat them at their own game. For example, the word I have is that there are "No Hesitation" targets with welfare queens on them holding Obama phones, surrounded by babies from multiple daddy's, as well as targets with poor undocumented guests and their families, but those weren't leaked yet.
Youre right of course but I dont intend to do anything but sit back and watch and prepare but I grow tired of the Cat and Mouse games or Elephant and Commie Jackass games depending on ones affiliation. Theyre definately trying to get in our heads and to an extent theyve suceeded but no one on our side has done anything, yet.
The argument that if the 'added protection' saves just one life, it is worth doing is deceptive.
What is not said is the loss of life caused by the 'protection' being used. In this case, and in many others, the training given law enforcement encourages a very quick lethal response. Yes this saves LEO folks from injuries and death, but it appears we have a lot of people being shot who were not a threat.
These 'desensitization' targets will almost inevitably lead to more innocent lives lost. The real crime is we get another wedge driven between us and our friends and relatives who are faithful to serving and protecting.
JASmith Wrote:The argument that if the 'added protection' saves just one life, it is worth doing is deceptive.
What is not said is the loss of life caused by the 'protection' being used. In this case, and in many others, the training given law enforcement encourages a very quick lethal response. Yes this saves LEO folks from injuries and death, but it appears we have a lot of people being shot who were not a threat.
Here in Albuquerque the police have shot(and killed) so many unarmed people that the feds have stepped in.
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02-26-2013, 01:34 AM
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2013, 02:00 AM by sneaky one.)
Seems like a lot of paranoia is running a many forums-w/ no actual proof of these wild claims-let it go for now=wait-then see. I don't remember the gov. shooting at civilians much- idiotic ohio-=bad scenario-1970? =Poorly trained personel.
We won't resort back to those stupid days-===anyone on here that spreads lies -rumers should just shut the duece up !!!!!!!!!!!!
The gov. won't take shot's at us- they fear us. we are the militia-on the sideline. A huge factor=we are=26-29 million ar owners- and well, at least, 75 million own a semi auto shotgun for duck-pheasant hunts .
Join the NRA-do as needed-if uncle obama comes a callin= anyone that bust's through my door is treated the same as a LEO, or a crook.......they won't walk home, at least not on their own power-sorry Jeff..
Self preservation-is the reason we all are attracted to weapons-hunting too. We can never ever give those rights up. Weapons are the modern day -sticks & stones=sorry times change-We The People Adapt===the Modern day sporting rifle-albeit 56 yrs. old now-has gained some ground- we actually fear the gov., and our own greedy country- who knows what is in the future?
I won't ever back down on my right to K&B Arms=KAB= pass this along please....KAB, KAB.!
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