Here we go: Feinstein's proposed 2013 Gun Legislation

[BjornF16]

Fight's On:

http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/i...lt-weapons

[Deer Hunter]

Screw them! I just posted it as well.

[Kikn]

Yeah I saw that an hour or so ago. She is smoking crack (figuratively).

[bdevr]

My guess? She gets everyting but the registration act. The cost alone would make it prohibitave, nevermind the fact that it would start a war with gun owners.

[Deer Hunter]

My guess? She gets everyting but the registration act. The cost alone would make it prohibitave, nevermind the fact that it would start a war with gun owners.

I think thats what they want, a war with legal gun owners that is. War can bring in the UN with no qualms about American citizens where as American soldiers and law enforcement might not shoot aamericans but the UN would.

[65G_Sethum]

she knows nothing about gun safety, she is a moron http://ttag.zippykidcdn.com/wp-content/u...k47_5a.jpg

[Bwild97]

So where does one go to get a complete copy of this Bill?

If this piece of fecal matter were to make its way into legislation; how many of the arms manufacturers and retailers will be able survive this ban?

Just looking through the summery of this Bill it would completely shut everyone down. Is there an exception for government contractors?

[bdevr]

So where does one go to get a complete copy of this Bill?

If this piece of fecal matter were to make its way into legislation; how many of the arms manufacturers and retailers will be able survive this ban?

Just looking through the summery of this Bill it would completely shut everyone down. Is there an exception for government contractors?

To the best of my knowledge (and google-fu skills) it has not been released yet. The condensed "details" are from a PBS news interview transcript

This forum seems to have the best wealth of knowledge and common sense that I have seen on the net. Perhaps it's time to find a way to organize and voice our dissaproval to our respective elected officials, as well as spread the word for others to do so. I personally am not comfortable letting the NRA fight this one alone...

[BjornF16]

Perhaps it's time to find a way to organize and voice our dissaproval to our respective elected officials, as well as spread the word for others to do so. I personally am not comfortable letting the NRA fight this one alone...

I've recently joined Gun Owners of America (GOA) and Second Amendment Foundation (SAF, or 2AF) as a LIFE member...I would encourage everyone to join/donate to them and NRA; as much as you can afford. These 3 will be the best avenues for gun owners to fight this legislation.

United we stand...divided we fall.

Please, do what y'all can...

[carbontetrachloride]

Another federal war in their never ending wars, The War On Guns, The War On Terror, The War On Drugs, The War On Poverty, The War On Prosperity, The War On Freedom, The War On Peace, etc. ad nauseum

[Deer Hunter]

What you really mean is there is a War being waged on American Citizens, openly.

[carbontetrachloride]

Yep. Will the peasants realize that the wonderful turn-key police state the RepubliCons (built under the guise the phony "terror" wars) and handed over to the Demonrats will be used against them? FAA approved drones, indefinite detentions, wiretapping, giant federal databases, camps, etc. The USA, Inc has the mechanisms in place to make any previous despotic tyranny look like Disneyland. All financed by worthless fiat FED paper. Enjoy!

[blackfoot]

Something that seems missing in the debate. Didn't NJ and CT have essentially the assault wepons ban in place at a state level?

[BjornF16]

CCl4...I don't think the GWOT was a phony war; but I do agree the infrastructure built surrounding it went too far and has now been co-opted by those who want to "fundamentally transform" us into a socialist police state

[Deer Hunter]

Yep. Will the peasants realize that the wonderful turn-key police state the RepubliCons (built under the guise the phony "terror" wars) and handed over to the Demonrats will be used against them? FAA approved drones, indefinite detentions, wiretapping, giant federal databases, camps, etc. The USA, Inc has the mechanisms in place to make any previous despotic tyranny look like Disneyland. All financed by worthless fiat FED paper. Enjoy!

You know 5 years ago I wouldve thought both of us were crazy for thinking this sh*t but now I dont find any of it very crazy at all. Suddenly it seems very real and ominous.

[Deer Hunter]

CCl4...I don't think the GWOT was a phony war; but I do agree the infrastructure built surrounding it went too far and has now been co-opted by those who want to "fundamentally transform" us into a socialist police state

At first I thought going into Afghanistan was the right thing to do but then when we went into Iraq I begin to wonder what exactly we were suppose to accomplish there. The Patriot act has suddenly morphed into a "papers please?" Atmosphere and now NDAA, "Give us your money, "Give us your guns" uhh what country is this again?

[BjornF16]

I fully supported/still support going into Iraq.

1. Flagrant, repeated violations of the UN Security Council resolutions stemming from Gulf War 1 (not that I'm a big fan of the UN, but they DID sanction the war that I think we were justified in participating in after the Kuwait invasion.
2. Possession of WMD
a. We know they had chemical weapons...they used them on Kurds; they may have used them against us; they still had infrastructure to manufacture
3. Quest for nukes
a. Turns out our "intel" was based upon the disinformation campaign aimed at deterring Iran...
b. They never believed we would have the intestinal fortitude to invade...just continue to lob missiles ala Clinton style
4. Ending the terror campaign financing that was targeting Israel
a. Just how many suicide-murder bombings have taken place in Israel since we deposed of Sad-damn?...not many.
5. Ending the terror support network coming out of Iraq
a. May not have been al-Queda, but there was terror support nonetheless.

Iraqi's are better off...we are better off...the middle east is better off without Sad-damn.

Ironically, if he'd kept out of Kuwait to begin with, he would still be in power now.

The military did a superb job in the direct combat action...it was classic "island hopping" (that is to say, the desert is an island of sand; and we "island hopped" just like in the Pacific during WW2).

The failure was post victory, where we had a failure in immediate infrastructure support.

We made the classic "de-nazification" mistake we made in WW2: We refused to allow Baathists to participate in the critical political and infrastructure positions and thus had a collapse of general services that allowed the roots of resistance to flourish.

Patriot Act went way too far and was a huge mistake.

Just my $.02 as a war-planner during that timeframe...

[Deer Hunter]

I fully supported/still support going into Iraq.

1. Flagrant, repeated violations of the UN Security Council resolutions stemming from Gulf War 1 (not that I'm a big fan of the UN, but they DID sanction the war that I think we were justified in participating in after the Kuwait invasion.
2. Possession of WMD
a. We know they had chemical weapons...they used them on Kurds; they may have used them against us; they still had infrastructure to manufacture
3. Quest for nukes
a. Turns out our "intel" was based upon the disinformation campaign aimed at deterring Iran...
b. They never believed we would have the intestinal fortitude to invade...just continue to lob missiles ala Clinton style
4. Ending the terror campaign financing that was targeting Israel
a. Just how many suicide-murder bombings have taken place in Israel since we deposed of Sad-damn?...not many.
5. Ending the terror support network coming out of Iraq
a. May not have been al-Queda, but there was terror support nonetheless.

Iraqi's are better off...we are better off...the middle east is better off without Sad-damn.

Ironically, if he'd kept out of Kuwait to begin with, he would still be in power now.

The military did a superb job in the direct combat action...it was classic "island hopping" (that is to say, the desert is an island of sand; and we "island hopped" just like in the Pacific during WW2).

The failure was post victory, where we had a failure in immediate infrastructure support.

We made the classic "de-nazification" mistake we made in WW2: We refused to allow Baathists to participate in the critical political and infrastructure positions and thus had a collapse of general services that allowed the roots of resistance to flourish.

Patriot Act went way too far and was a huge mistake.

Just my $.02 as a war-planner during that timeframe...

The Military did a great job but just like in Vietnam the Govt wont let us win completely before they jump into another war. Afghanistan was supposedly won, Libya, now Syria but all these places are powder kegs waiting to turn into WW III. Please dont misunderstand my disagreeing with Iraq, Lybia, now Syria etc.... for not agreeing that Saddam Hussein got what he deserved. But the price we paid for what weve gained is null. No peace, no oil, thousands of our men and women dead. No it wasnt worth it to me , just my opinion.
Now our troops are heros to me but just like the mess we're in now here in the states. Its the freaking Politicians that I cant stomach.

[BjornF16]

We did win the battle...we lost the post-conflict stabilization. We know how to win wars; we suck at stabilization.

There were too many failures in the immediate post victory environment that led to instability. The military isn't geared for nation building...there should have been post war planning going on way before the first bullet was fired. The State department (and other governmental agencies) should have played a bigger role and it should have been "war-gamed".

I don't think that invalidates the reason to go, or the execution of the ground war...ultimately, everyone will have their opinion on whether it was worth it or not...but we should have never even have gotten to that point (i.e. we shouldn't have had those failures).

I blame a lot of our issues on the so-called "peace dividend" and the under-funding and draw down of the military throughout the 90's. The "bottom up review" gutted our capability to engage in multiple, simultaneous conflicts.

The lack of adequate responses from Clinton administration (who always thumped his chest after sending cruise missiles to various locations) to REAL threats and his administration's refusal to accept bin Laden from Sudan when offered led to the events of 2001+.

No one seems to want to discuss the root causes...but it all started in the 90s under Clinton.

Just another $.02

P.S. - bought another Glock 19 today...for a measly $420 (new). Glock LE/MIL purchase program rocks! That was the only G19 I could find in Fort Worth.

[Deer Hunter]

Im not a military guy so I dont have the experience that you service guys have but it seems to me that when you go to war you kill your enemies, all of them until they surrender or their dead. Bomb them, shoot them or starve them if need be but our whimp Politicans dont have the balls for that mentality of War. When we bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki we werent worried about civilian caualties. They were the enemy so we killed them, all of them. I dont say that with glee and want to hurt my fellow man but my point is this we either win or we dont go to war, period! Our Politicians keep sending our children to die for their pride and that is wrong.
Im no Peacenic Pacifist either, I would and will fight if need be but as my daddy told me as a young man "Choose your battles carefully."
One other thing, can you tell me why we destroy the infrastructure of our enemies and then we rebuild and pay for it. WTF?