Loki weapon systems

[Mrfjones]

I'm not really sure if this is supposed to go here or not but i did want to let you all know what has happened. I know a couple of people on here have rifles from them but they have now gone out of business. They left not only me (i had a 6.5 on order and paid half as well as some parts I wanted on there) but others and dealers having put money down without a refund, email or telephone number. I personally am out about $1200 so I didn't want anyone else to be like me and wonder where they had gone.

I spoke with the county sheriffs department and they are trying to build a case against them for fraud and theft.

They took the signs off their building and moved everything out, it appears that they will be filing bankruptcy.

[Taylormade]

Wow that's a pain in the butt, I hope you get your money back. You'll never get back the time you waisted waiting on something they never planned on making. Sorry bastards

[LR1955]

I'm not really sure if this is supposed to go here or not but i did want to let you all know what has happened. I know a couple of people on here have rifles from them but they have now gone out of business. They left not only me (i had a 6.5 on order and paid half as well as some parts I wanted on there) but others and dealers having put money down without a refund, email or telephone number. I personally am out about $1200 so I didn't want anyone else to be like me and wonder where they had gone.

I spoke with the county sheriffs department and they are trying to build a case against them for fraud and theft.

They took the signs off their building and moved everything out, it appears that they will be filing bankruptcy.

MrF:

The guy who owned the place is a forum member. J. Wilson is the name he used on the Grendel forums.

Find out when their bankruptcy hearings are and make a claim. You do have some sort of proof you gave him your money?

LR1955

[BjornF16]

Jwilson1985...but he is not the owner (or at least he said he was not):

PC, you are talking to the wrong guy. on that aspect. it is not my company ,it is my best friends!.so if you would like to view a product based on the way i type, I'm sorry!

but thanks for your opinion

[Mrfjones]

I do have proof, the invoice and my debit card/checking statement with matching numbers. I will try to get a hold of jwilson1985 no matter who he really is, thank you

[ericv]

I think you are going to be screwed. When they declare bankruptcy people usually just walk away and maybe creditors get pennies on the dollar. Good luck

[LR1955]

I think you are going to be screwed. When they declare bankruptcy people usually just walk away and maybe creditors get pennies on the dollar. Good luck

Eric:

Yes, that is true. I doubt Mr. F will get much if anything. We have advised people not to give money down to any outfit, no matter if they are a 'gun maker', car dealer, plumber, et. al. A reputable company will not charge a person until the item is ready to be shipped.

We had another one like this Loki place. Wardog Outfitters ripped a couple of guys off in much the same way. Demand money down and either ignore things or send them something different (and of much less value).

Guys / Gals -- a huge indicator of the viability of a gun maker is if they demand money down! If they do, it means they do not have any working capital and are sending your money to a creditor to pay a minimum on a far overdue bill. It means they are on the verge of bankruptcy. A pyramid scheme.

So, if you find a business that works this way and want our advice, it will be to find someone else to do business with. An place that puts AR-15's together today is so far backlogged that if you cancel your order, someone will pick it up instantly. There is no need for you to secure your purchase in order to be ensured you will get the thing. And, there is nothing magical about how a company puts AR-15 parts together.

LR1955

[Kikn]

Can't you dispute the charge with your credit card company.

[Mrfjones]

I tried to dispute it but they told me they wouldn't even file a claim because it was over 90 days old.

[LRRPF52]

I read on another forum that Loki stiffed the local PD out of $20,000. The cops showed up to check out what was going on, and they were gone like donkey kong. I also had inquired with Loki about a compact telestock for a PDW, and they never got back to me.

Last post from jwilson1985 was November 7th of this year, 2012. He says they will have a booth at SHOT, which I doubt now. Here's an interesting thread on AR15.com:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/54105...tml&page=1

Here's another post on The Firearm Blog:

They screwed a lot if people over. I own 2 Loki billet Tactical rifles. They made a very high quality rifle. Nordic also machined their billet sets for them. Nordic machines JP Rifles billet sets too. They don’t advertise them though. Too bad they screwed everyone over in the worst possible way. I had 2 customers order 2 billet Rifles back in May and paid in full . Erik never filled these orders do I have to find a way to come up with a little more than $3,000 to pay them back. My FFL is out of my garage and I just got my FFL Feb of this year. I can’t absorb a loss like this. It def effects my family in many ways. The whole business thing went out the window, it’s def a personal matter now. It takes a special kind of person to treat others like this. He is a thief and coward. They continued to take orders knowing they wouldn’t be able to fill them. They continued to collect money up until they left dodge. The Sheriffs office in Atoka have a investigation on Loki and they plan to prosecute him. If you need info about this, email me at soonerfirearms@gmail.com

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/...s-no-more/

[Mrfjones]

i read both of those in the last couple of days, though i didn't know they stiffed the cops out of anything. I reread the ar15 thread and I have to say they really made a great rifle. I could shoot beer bottle caps at 100 yards all day. I tried to contact nordic, jwilson, and another person that knew them somehow but I have yet to hear back from anyone.

the whole thing is just sad, all these people that have been screwed over. I really couldn't afford this but there are others in worse shape than me.

I will change the one upper I have to a vltor, seekins, mega or something and put the noveske lower together for it and then I will just build my grendel with the same basic components. I just hope I can ring that much accuracy out of mil surplus ammo like I can with this one.

[LRRPF52]

It's sad to see honest people cheated out of thousands of dollars, then have the perpetrators disappear into thin air. Lessons learned:

Don't front money to a relatively unknown company. Reputable businesses will not ask for that kind of money up-front, unless what you have ordered is so personalized that it has little re-sale value to them, like a custom stock-maker that fitted a hand-crafted Mahogany or Walnut piece to you.

I always got the impression that jwilson1985 worked for them, but he claimed that he was just a friend/customer. There are some posts on AR15.com that don't live up to his grammar and usage style.

I also noticed on his profile that he contacted the administrator of this site about advertising, which is a reasonable business activity normally associated with a company in an official capacity, not one for a customer.

[LR1955]

It's sad to see honest people cheated out of thousands of dollars, then have the perpetrators disappear into thin air. Lessons learned:

Don't front money to a relatively unknown company. Reputable businesses will not ask for that kind of money up-front, unless what you have ordered is so personalized that it has little re-sale value to them, like a custom stock-maker that fitted a hand-crafted Mahogany or Walnut piece to you.

I always got the impression that jwilson1985 worked for them, but he claimed that he was just a friend/customer. There are some posts on AR15.com that don't live up to his grammar and usage style.

I also noticed on his profile that he contacted the administrator of this site about advertising, which is a reasonable business activity normally associated with a company in an official capacity, not one for a customer.

LRRP52:

You mean you could actually comprehend what JW was trying to write?

I too thought he worked for them. However, it was almost impossible to understand anything he tried to write so I will leave it at that.

He certainly tied his name to the Loki reputation.

Oh well .. lesson learned for you guys. Do not give money down.

LR1955

[LRRPF52]

No, I couldn't really understand what he was saying, hence the reference to his grammar/usage "style". There are some posts under his name at Arfcom where the words are actually spelled correctly, and it doesn't sound like him at all, so I suspect someone else using his handle there.

[louieprkr]

Thats very disappointing to hear! I purchased an upper from Loki last year and I have been very happy with it, however this makes me wish I had supported a different company!

[jwilson1985]

This is the first time I've really even looked at this stuff, so I'll give you what I know.
We had a falling out shortly after my last post here we being me and the owner of loki. I was gone a while before this happened, hence me removing the affiliation from my profile.
I also want to set straight that I am not on arfcom nor have i ever been or want to be! That was a issue i contacted admin about on that sight when those posts came up.

This is the story of what happened that I have got through the grapevine as i have had no contact with them since the falling out. It appears that his FFL was pulled, there is a court docket online that you can see( http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/...s-no-more/ ). It also appears the Erik has changed all contact info as well.

I also want to state that i never worked for loki. i just promoted the brand cause Erik WAS!! a good friend of mine. I'm truly sorry and sickend for the ones that lost money,but that is something i had nothing to do with or even knew about. I'm also sorry that i have no direction to point you in cause I have the same contact info that everyone else does.

[jchapman62]

Just saw this from a google search:


Looks for Range

Members

19 posts
Gender:Male
Location:delaware
Posted 14 December 2012 - 04:06 PM
Update>>>>>....

Just got off the phone with captain Darrin duckworth with the otoka ok police dept.He is requesting that anyone who has been taken by loki weapon system to contact him by phone or email...they are building a case on this thief....

Phone 580-889-3250
fax 580-889-4037
sgtduckworth107@yahoo.com

Please pass this on to any of your customers that were taken.Should not let this guy get away with it...I myself lost 2K.....won't be a good Christmas for me....

BTW according to what he said ...he spoke to Erik and he said he was leaving because he was overwhelmed with orders and can't keep up....hard for me to believe that....


Interesting. I have a friend who got an upper from them and it was OK, but apparently they're toast. Hope this helps.

[Sniper4life]

The Demise of Loki Weapon Systems, the True Story From the Gunsmith who subcontracted for them.
In the summer of 2009 we entered into a contract with a weapons company to design and build them rifles. They were
to pay us 280,000 dollars for the work. We designed the weapon and began manufacturing them. When we approached the
company for the money they refused to take our calls. Soon after we received a cease and desist order on building
the rifles from the companies attorney stating that we had stole their design. They shut down our machine shops
production through threats of legal recourse against them. When we went to court against them they had the blueprints
to the rifles with them showing that they had designed it not us. It wasn't until later we had discovered that they
had hired someone to hack our network and steal the blue prints from us. Unfortunately for the company they were not
very brilliant and failed to remove the drafters mark from the blueprint, the drafter whom we paid and had worked
with for the past year in the design stages of the rifle. When the Drafter brought this to light in front of the
court, the Judge Immediately turned the case around and told the owner of Loki that he needed to be suing the other
company for theft not the other way around. We thought we had won and everything would go back to normal but it didn't.
Almost immediately after that we started having surprise visits from the ATF, harassing us and nitpicking anything
they could get us on. They lied to us, mislead us, broke several laws and protocols regarding proper search and seizure
of an FFL holder including more than one unannounced visit a year. When they couldn't find anything as we were law abiding
people just trying to make a living, the ATF agent began a Rogue, grey area, vague line of questioning to which
it was very hard to understand exactly what he was asking. The owner of Loki answered the questions to the best of
his ability instead of asking to have his lawyer present which he should have done but was simply just trying to
comply with the agent as he had nothing to hide. The Agent talked him into a corner to which he eventually misunderstood
what was being asked of him and his answer was perceived as a lie. As soon as he realized what was being asked he recanted
his statement explaining he had misunderstood the question to which the Agent replied ah ha so you lied to a Federal Agent!
He then left and began building a case against us based on a "lie" that was said during the illegal and unwarranted questioning.
Confounded as to why they were going out of their way to seemingly put us out of business we did some investigating
of our own. What we found is that our Agent graduated from the same school, in the same town, in the same year, as the owner
of the company we were currently fighting against in court. It all made sense at that point and when we made inquiry
into this with the ATF they pulled the Agent and replaced him with another. Unfortunately this didn't stop the damage
that was already done as the ATF would not pull the case against us, probably out of fear that we would sue them for
harassment and illegal surveillance/ search and seizure of documents. We continued on however through 2010, 2011, and into 2012
where we finally had begun to make money after all our set backs and began expanding both production and design. The Lawsuit
against the theft of our design eventually ended up a draw as They could not beat us yet if we sued them we would
have to turn over the design to them. Seeing as how we were currently using the design and that the company was broke
and couldn't pay us anything both parties dropped the case. However up to this point we had fought and lost our case with the ATF
twice as the ATF fights their cases in a DOJ court basically guaranteeing their victory. It cost thousands of
dollars to re-appeal your case each time. On the third appeal you have the option to go to a supreme court. We were certain we
win at this point as their case against us was petty and unsubstantial. However I received a phone call on thanksgiving
informing me that we had lost the case and that I was out of a job. I couldn't understand why as we were so close
to beating this. As it turns out our lead manufacturer had been in financial trouble for awhile and hadn't informed us that they were
going bankrupt along with thousands of dollars worth of parts we had ordered and desperately needed. The ATF requires that
they sign off on any new manufacturer cutting your parts, a process that takes upwards of 6 to 9 months. On top of that before
they would approve anything we would have to pay the thousands of dollars to re-appeal our case. That means not only would we
be without parts to sell for nearly a year but that we were not going to receive the parts we already ordered to cover our current
builds, and we would be paying every dime we had in legal fees to fight the ATF. It was a gamble that in the end the owner chose
to keep the money that he had and refund as many customers as possible rather than pay the ATF and most likely lose even more. He
was given 30 days to transfer or destroy all remaining receivers/ suppressors/ full autos and surrender his license and books,
and vacate the premises. Nobody came out good in this situation. I personally was living out of my truck on canned beans till I
could find another job as I had not seen this coming. There is fault in many areas of this situation but frankly to me its
just another case of the federal government Nickle and diming a small business into the grave with mafia style tactics. I feel
for anyone who lost money in this as I lost probably more than anyone as I had devoted two years of my life to building this
company up into what I hoped would someday be a prominent manufacturer. I felt I needed to explain as much as I legally could
in regards to this situation so that light and understanding could be brought in. Although I no longer have any contact with
the owner I can tell you that he was devastated by this and in no way expected this to happen or tried to con anyone.
He didn't walk away from this a rich man, he paid back as many people as he could with what he had. Unfortunately this is just
the way it goes sometimes.

[Nukes]

How do you prosecute someone for going bankrupt?

[bwaites]

How do you prosecute someone for going bankrupt?

You prosecute them INTO bankruptcy.