Grendel at extended ranges?

[Drifter]

Didn't review all posts on this thread, but worth mentioning that I think Hornady puts the Creedmoor load recipe right on the box of factory ammo. Doesn't seem very often that factory ammo uses a powder available to reloaders, and certainly not often that the details are so openly shared.

[ss355]

... Also, for a factory DPMS, you got a good barrel if it consistently groups like that. Some of those barrels group in the teens, and others will give you 1.5" groups consistently-you just don't know what you're getting until you pull the trigger. ...

I did consider eschewing the factory DPMS tube and ordering a Kreiger to build my own upper, but after doing some math, I decided that for the price the DPMS factory upper was worth a roll of the dice. Jury is still out on the 140 grn load and whether she'll group at distance, but I sure have high hopes that I'll be satisfied enough with this tube to wear it out before I'm tempted by a Kreiger.

[dwostler]

I know this is an old post, but having shot today and off and on for as long as the Grendel has been around, I just had to comment.
I use it in a bolt action rifle with about a 26 inch barrel (#4 shilen on a Rem seven action), I have not had much problem with the Rams.
I shoot only one load at all distances, 130 Norma Gold Match (cheap at Midway when on sale), 26.5 gr Benchmark, AA (Lapua) brass and CCI 450 primers.
Very mild with no pressure, doing about 2450 -2500 fps. Works fine and low recoil. This is my hunter rifle for the sport. It could take another grain or two, but I have not found a reason to hot rod it.
If anyone is looking to get the most speed, IMR 4320 works well (small grain size and slow burner, respectively speaking), but my best luck is with benchmark.
--Dennis

[noone]

I didn't have much success with Benchmark, but I was trying it in a semi-auto with either a 19.5 or 18 inch barrel. Since then, I have settled on either AA2520, W748, BLC-2, or TAC. I got pretty good results with X-terminator also, but the others just seemed better. Interestingly, my load of Tac and W748 shot to the same point of impact at 200 yards. That made things very convenient for shooting practical rifle matches.

[Tikka]

I gave up trying to make the grendel perform above and beyond. It is a great little package but in the hands of regular mortals, like myself, it's a 600 yarder.

[ricsmall]

I am by no means an expert, but I got a .223 gas gun to shoot consistent at 600 last time out until wind picked up. I feel really good about having 54 grains extra weight and a lot better BC. BTW I was shooting 69 gr SMK over 25.3 grs varget and BR4's, LC brass , Off top of my head I think BC is @.300 or little higher at 2740 fps. I cant wait to get the grendel going and try it out!

[LR1955]

I am by no means an expert, but I got a .223 gas gun to shoot consistent at 600 last time out until wind picked up. I feel really good about having 54 grains extra weight and a lot better BC. BTW I was shooting 69 gr SMK over 25.3 grs varget and BR4's, LC brass , Off top of my head I think BC is @.300 or little higher at 2740 fps. I cant wait to get the grendel going and try it out!

RS:

How about using a .223 bullet more intended for distances past 300? A 77 grain Match King ought to do the trick. There was only one reason why we shot a 69 Sierra at anything past 300. At the time, the only match grade bullet made for the .223 was a 69 grain Match King. It is precisely why the AR-15 / M-16 was not competitive against an M-14 about twenty five years ago. When the longer and heavier match grade bullets for the 5.56 hit the scene -- along with 7 turn twist barrels to shoot them -- the M-14 disappeared in High Power.

Bottom line... No one shoots the 69 Match King past 200 (300 maximum) anymore because the 77 grain match bullets are so much better.

LR55

[ricsmall]

RS:

How about using a .223 bullet more intended for distances past 300? A 77 grain Match King ought to do the trick. There was only one reason why we shot a 69 Sierra at anything past 300. At the time, the only match grade bullet made for the .223 was a 69 grain Match King. It is precisely why the AR-15 / M-16 was not competitive against an M-14 about twenty five years ago. When the longer and heavier match grade bullets for the 5.56 hit the scene -- along with 7 turn twist barrels to shoot them -- the M-14 disappeared in High Power.

Bottom line... No one shoots the 69 Match King past 200 (300 maximum) anymore because the 77 grain match bullets are so much better.

LR55

My barrel is 1-9" so I dont think it would do that well with the 77's. However I have read of some having success w/ 9" twist, just havent tried.I do plan to rebarrel after my grendel is done, would 8" twist do or should I def. go with 7" twist ? thanks

[oxn316]

I have a 1/9 that will shoot a 2" ten shot group with 77s at 300. So it is possible

[ricsmall]

I have a 1/9 that will shoot a 2" ten shot group with 77s at 300. So it is possible

what powder are you using and are they magazine length. I think I remember the sierras being designed for mag length coal.

[bwaites]

I have a 1/9 that will shoot a 2" ten shot group with 77s at 300. So it is possible

That's very good. I'm really suprised at that. I haven't found any 1/9's that will stabilize anything over 69's. 1/8's will usually stabilize up to 77's, and a few will stabilize 80's, I've heard. Even longer .223 barrels, like the 26-30" used in F Class have to be 1/8 to stabilize 77's from what those guys tell me.

Any chance that barrel is actually a 1/8? ( I ask because I have an upper that was sold to me as 1/9, but is actually marked 1/8 once I got the handguard off.

[ChellieWiles]

I second Bwaites remark concerning twist rate. I have used many NATO chamber 1:9" and haven't been able to stabilize anything over a 60grain bullet past 225-275 yards. I just tried a few months ago with barnes 62ttsx and it worked great, till about 250 yards where it began keyholing targets. I have a target I set out at 500yards and the 62 was perfectly vertical when it hit. very nice bullet hole in my target but that thing turns into a shuriken once past 200 or so.

[ricsmall]

I second Bwaites remark concerning twist rate. I have used many NATO chamber 1:9" and haven't been able to stabilize anything over a 60grain bullet past 225-275 yards. I just tried a few months ago with barnes 62ttsx and it worked great, till about 250 yards where it began keyholing targets. I have a target I set out at 500yards and the 62 was perfectly vertical when it hit. very nice bullet hole in my target but that thing turns into a shuriken once past 200 or so.

i guess all barrels are different because ive had good luck with an Oly arms K8 target match heavy stainless 5.56 with 1:9". Just this weekend my cousin and I shot several moa groups at 400 lasered yards. Im shooting 69 SMK's and hes shooting 70 berger VLD's. We finished up on a 732 yard lasered target just for kicks. He missed every shot due to double dialing his windage. I had three shots left and made good on one. Wind was gusty @ 20 knots, but the swirling wind was the challenge. My final shot I dialed back to 0 wind and waited for it to lay then squeezed off. probably some luck, but Ill take it. Were gonna try some more in a couple of weeks maybe ill have a good report! Be glad when my grendel is done, I expect much better from it. BTW my cousins gun is a DPMS special bull 24" (heavy sucka!) 1:9" in .223 rem . Edit: Im not disputing what you guys are saying, just telling my experience.

Richard

[ChellieWiles]

like bwaites mentioned before, it might be mismarked is what I was agreeing to.

[oxn316]

That's very good. I'm really suprised at that. I haven't found any 1/9's that will stabilize anything over 69's. 1/8's will usually stabilize up to 77's, and a few will stabilize 80's, I've heard. Even longer .223 barrels, like the 26-30" used in F Class have to be 1/8 to stabilize 77's from what those guys tell me.

Any chance that barrel is actually a 1/8? ( I ask because I have an upper that was sold to me as 1/9, but is actually marked 1/8 once I got the handguard off.

There actually is no markings on the barrel. It was purchased as a 1/9 24" bull barrel from i think centuron or something like that. I cut it down to 21" and have great luck with it. using a cleani.g rod its around a 1/9. I know thats not an exact way to measure. I haven even made hits on a 1000 yard target with it.

[noone]

With an unmarked, unknown barrel, I would simply check the twist rate myself. I trust makers like Obermeyer, Kreiger, Schneider, Lilja and so on to sell me a barrel with the twist that they stated. If I were to buy an unmarked barrel at a gun show, or from someone I didn't know really well, I would check the twist myself just to make sure. Even honest people can make mistakes.

[LRRPF52]

If the 77gr SMK or Scenar are pushed fast enough or in a node to that barrel, a 1/9 could stabilize them, but 1/8 or 1/7 are definitely the recommended way to go with longer bearing surface .224 pills.

The 77gr SMK with Cannelure is used for the Mk262 5.56 load, IIRC. 77gr is a great mag-length loadable pill for 5.56 work at intermediate distances.

[RStewart]

If the 77gr SMK or Scenar are pushed fast enough or in a node to that barrel, a 1/9 could stabilize them, but 1/8 or 1/7 are definitely the recommended way to go with longer bearing surface .224 pills.

The 77gr SMK with Cannelure is used for the Mk262 5.56 load, IIRC. 77gr is a great mag-length loadable pill for 5.56 work at intermediate distances.

I agree wholeheartedly on the 77's. I use both the 77 SMK and the Hornady 75's in my match AR. It's a 1:7.7 twist and is very competitive. These are also the last bullet weights folks should probably try load to mag length. For single load I use the 80 SMK's. In my match, I get 2871 with Varget. In my 1:6.5 twist bolt rifle with 30" barrel, I get 2960 with 8208.

[hrt4me]

I agree wholeheartedly on the 77's. I use both the 77 SMK and the Hornady 75's in my match AR. It's a 1:7.7 twist and is very competitive. These are also the last bullet weights folks should probably try load to mag length. For single load I use the 80 SMK's. In my match, I get 2871 with Varget. In my 1:6.5 twist bolt rifle with 30" barrel, I get 2960 with 8208.

+1

[Zach_J5]

I know this threads old, but I read through it and figure I'll put in my .02. I have a 16" dpms w/ bull barrel that's 1 in 9 and it shoots hornadys 75gn superformance quite well. I got groups under an inch at 100 with em. But, mine does prefer pills in the 60's range. 64-69gn is her favorites.