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Hi Folks, i've been following this form for a little while and thought its about time i introduced myself.
Im Ex Britidsh Army, 10 years service. I grew up on a farm in the UK. In the Army i was an Armourer (weapons repair specialist) I also qualified as a Master Gunsmith with civilian qualifications. I worked 3 years in Defence Contracting after leaving the Army, then i worked for the European Space Agency for 8 years before starting my own Gunsmith business. Currently own a factory with 14 staff producing mostly suppressors but also some accessories and rifles. Based in North West Germany.
I own 2x 6.5 Grendels, both self built AR15's and i just started hand loading for them (and for a 350 Legend), I hope to gain knowledge of others experience and tips on the reloading front.
We have to achieve 2000 Joules (1475.1 Ft Lbs) energy at 100m here with a caliber of 6.5mm or larger to legally use on wild boar and larger deer. so i'm looking to tickle that out of the Grendel with and 18" barrel if i can.
Anyhow, glad to have found this forum and found it very interesting and valuable so far.
Best Regards Pete
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Welcome.
That energy spec is doable, but not easy. My 20" running very hot 107 SMK's gets within just a few ft-lb. Heavier bullets are going to be slower and tougher to hit that peak. Lighter bullets will bleed too much getting there. Shorter BBL is going to be tough.
Good luck!
4x P100
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12-14-2023, 02:23 AM
(This post was last modified: 12-14-2023, 03:14 AM by VASCAR2.)
Welcome to the forum PeteinGermany!
I think youre going to need a 20 barrel to get enough energy. A 123 grain SST at 2500 FPS is doable and that produces 1487 foot pounds of energy at 100 yards. I dont know of any powder that will get you 2500 FPS with 120-125 grain bullet out of an 18 barrel. Here is the info from Hornadys ballistic calculator.
![[Image: 53395596842_654b764612_z.jpg]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53395596842_654b764612_z.jpg)
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I did use a Magnettospeed to chronograph Hornady 123 grain SST Factory ammo on a 70 degree day. The five round average was 2493 FPS out of an 18 AR-15. With CFE223 or LeveRevolution being temperature sensitive I dont think you can guarantee your going to get that much velocity on a cold day. Here is the info from Hornadys ballistic calculator.
![[Image: 53396536641_ed19c3f083_z.jpg]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53396536641_ed19c3f083_z.jpg)
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Thanks guys, my current load is 29,8gr of N540. Winchester small rifle magnum primer, starline brass and a 120gr Nosler BT. I'm getting 2480fps with that and superb accuracy, well under 1/2 MOA repeatedly. That is a little faster than quickload says it should be, but verified with 2 different chronographs and i usualy find that barrels with 5R rifling are a little faster. Great load for our smaller Roe deer which don't have the 2000j limit.
The Hornady factory 123gr SST load is actually just over my 2000joules requirement, i've chrono values of 2526ms, which is pretty impressive from 18" but it doesn't group well.
I'm limited to what powders i can get my hands on here, Ive a tub of CF223 unopened. Im also looking at RS40 as i can get the Swiss Reload powders here.
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Welcome to the clan, P-I-G ( sorry, couldn't help it ) , from the great nation of Texas! To your quest of 2000j, I think you'll get there, probably should carry an extra bolt. How do they qualify your load there? Can you just show 'em your chrono readings or do you have to go to a governmental proving ground and show 'em?
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Welcome, Pete.
Pete in Germany Wrote:Thanks guys, my current load is 29,8gr of N540. Winchester small rifle magnum primer, starline brass and a 120gr Nosler BT. I'm getting 2480fps with that and superb accuracy, well under 1/2 MOA repeatedly.
Nice. That's tough to beat. As VASCAR said, CFE223 is a bit temperature sensitive. My load that clocks 2520fps in the winter flies 2620 or more in the heat of summer (22" barrel). Sounds like you're in good shape with the N540, though.
Paul Peloquin
Did government credibility die of Covid or with Covid?
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Welcome to the horde from Wisconsin .
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Welcome aboard Pete!
I spent 2 years in München during the Cold War, which were very memorable years.
CFE223 will get a 123gr to 2500fps from an 18.
My 123gr A-MAX load on top of 31.2gr of CFE223 averaged 2519fps 15ft from the muzzle from my LaRue 18 Stealth 2.0 Rifle.
From my 17.6 Lilja barrel Grendel, the same load averaged 2490fps 15ft from the muzzle, so both of these are over 2500fps at the muzzle.
In my 16 AA Enfield-rifled barrel, 31.4gr of CFE223 gave me 2520fps, using 2.272 COL.
16 AA MLGS Grendel, 60deg F/ 15.6 deg C
31.1gr 2489fps
31.4gr 2520
31.7gr 2532
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6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:
www.AR15buildbox.com
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just_john Wrote:Welcome to the clan, P-I-G ( sorry, couldn't help it ) , from the great nation of Texas! To your quest of 2000j, I think you'll get there, probably should carry an extra bolt. How do they qualify your load there? Can you just show 'em your chrono readings or do you have to go to a governmental proving ground and show 'em?
One of my nicknames is Piggy Pete, or over on snipers hide is used to be BoarBasher450, (back when i was using a Marlin 1895) ive done my share of reducing the European wild boar population.
Good question, personal ethics i guess, however a good bullet in the right place is worth more than a couple of hundred joules. I figure having Data on one load that achieves 2000 would suffice if ever one was checked. So i could just carry a box of Hornady 123gr with me
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LRRPF52 Wrote:Welcome aboard Pete!
I spent 2 years in München during the Cold War, which were very memorable years.
CFE223 will get a 123gr to 2500fps from an 18.
My 123gr A-MAX load on top of 31.2gr of CFE223 averaged 2519fps 15ft from the muzzle from my LaRue 18 Stealth 2.0 Rifle.
From my 17.6 Lilja barrel Grendel, the same load averaged 2490fps 15ft from the muzzle, so both of these are over 2500fps at the muzzle.
In my 16 AA Enfield-rifled barrel, 31.4gr of CFE223 gave me 2520fps, using 2.272 COL.
16 AA MLGS Grendel, 60deg F/ 15.6 deg C
31.1gr 2489fps
31.4gr 2520
31.7gr 2532
one of our boys studied at the german military university in München, he liked it down there too, he is now stationed in Washington DC.
This Proof Research barrel on mine seems to be quick too. If i can get 2523 FPS at the muzzle ive cracked it.
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Welcome Pete, Waidmannsheil!
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Rivercityjeff Wrote:Welcome Pete, Waidmannsheil!
Thankyou, Waidmannsheil.
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Welcome to the forum! How common is 6.5 Grendel in Germany, and what factory loads are available? It's interesting to learn what's common/uncommon in other countries.
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65Carcano Wrote:Welcome to the forum! How common is 6.5 Grendel in Germany, and what factory loads are available? It's interesting to learn what's common/uncommon in other countries.
thanks for the welcome, 6.5 Grendel has a small but growing following over here, i have built a few on request for customers plus 2 for myself and 1 for my son. Some of the AR manufacturing companies over here also offer uppers or complete rifles and at least one importer is bringing a few rifles in from the USA.
Ammo is available from Hornady, Federal, Sellior & Bellot Privi Partizan,PPU,
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LRRPF52 Wrote:Welcome aboard Pete!
I spent 2 years in München during the Cold War, which were very memorable years.
CFE223 will get a 123gr to 2500fps from an 18.
My 123gr A-MAX load on top of 31.2gr of CFE223 averaged 2519fps 15ft from the muzzle from my LaRue 18 Stealth 2.0 Rifle.
From my 17.6 Lilja barrel Grendel, the same load averaged 2490fps 15ft from the muzzle, so both of these are over 2500fps at the muzzle.
In my 16 AA Enfield-rifled barrel, 31.4gr of CFE223 gave me 2520fps, using 2.272 COL.
16 AA MLGS Grendel, 60deg F/ 15.6 deg C
31.1gr 2489fps
31.4gr 2520
31.7gr 2532
Well i managed to get my 2000J.
32,5gr of CFE223 pushing 123gr SST is getting me 2527fps /779ms) and that gets me 2005J at 100m. Groups at 1MOA
my rifle likes the Vit N540 though, with 30.0gr im getting 2481 fps and 1930J with 1/2 MOA, but if i drop back to 29.6gr i get 2448 fps (746ms) 1878J and 1/3MOA.
I honestly wonder if a deer can tell the difference or around 130J.
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PeteinGermany Wrote:Well i managed to get my 2000J.
32,5gr of CFE223 pushing 123gr SST is getting me 2527fps /779ms) and that gets me 2005J at 100m. Groups at 1MOA
my rifle likes the Vit N540 though, with 30.0gr im getting 2481 fps and 1930J with 1/2 MOA, but if i drop back to 29.6gr i get 2448 fps (746ms) 1878J and 1/3MOA.
I honestly wonder if a deer can tell the difference or around 130J.
Someone need to bring the exploits of W.D.M. Bell to the attention of the hunting licensing authorities in Germany.
NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO
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6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:
www.AR15buildbox.com
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Welcome aboard Pete!
It looks like you are bringing a wealth of experience and expertise to the forum!
We look forward to seeing interesting discussions with you here.
Many of the folks you converse with also have a wealth of experience and expertise, but from slightly different perspective.
This makes our forum rich indeed.
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Welcome to the chaos, you should have no trouble getting that out of an 18 inch and higher barrel. There are a few of us getting 2700 and up fps with Hammer bullets.....
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