6.5 Grendel on it's own merits

[LRRPF52]

I base it on my personal experience at matches. These are gas gun matches that go out to 900 or so yards. Everyone I see adopting a new small frame AR cartridge is going 6ARC. Within this group, Grendel is generally considered inferior to 6ARC. With cheap ammo readily available, Grendel was, at least to me, a no brainer. With that ammo pretty well gone, 6.8 SPC is arguably better for short range hunting, while 6ARC is better for longer range target shooting. I think Grendel is a great cartridge, but the fact remains that a big edge it had over competitors is gone. Just look at this forum. There's not exactly a flood of new members pouring in. Beyond that, Federal seems to have stopped producing ammo for Grendel. Prvi seems to be going away too. Hornady, Barnes, Nosler, and AA seem to be the only companies currently making new supplies. Of those, Hornady is the only major player. Again, it's a great cartridge, but its usage seems to be shrinking, not growing, at least to me. Hopefully, Hornady keeps producing decent quantities of ammo.

I haven’t noticed a change in forum membership with new members, not that this is an indication of adoption in the broader market. Most people shooting 6.5 Grendel are not members of a forum.
Large ammunition manufacturers have schedules when they produce particular chamberings. .223 Remington and .308 Winchester run in larger batches, while the rest of the cartridges get rotated through a schedule.

PPU isn’t going away since they supply military contracts for 6.5 Grendel. Pre-WuhanFlu, there were at least 81 different factory loads for 6.5 Grendel, including from Barnes, Federal, Hornady, Nosler, PPU, Remington, Sellier & Bellot, and Wolf.

You have to look outside of just a tiny perspective from shooting matches and aggregate a large data set.

6.8 isn’t arguably better for short range. There have been some pretty large sample size collections from hunters shooting both 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC on hogs, with no real difference within close range in hit/kill ratio.

Another thing to remember is that 6.5 Grendel isn’t any of the big manufacturers’ babies, so it’s not invented here, yet still is the only small shop originated cartridge that has SAAMI and CIP certifications/standardization with Federal Gold Medal Match and Wolf Steel case. That alone speaks volumes to the internet utility of the cartridge.

There will likely never be steel case 6.8 SPC, 6mm ARC, etc. 6mm ARC has how many manufacturers again? Will we ever see 81+ loads for 6mm ARC?

Look what happened with .224 Valkyrie or even worse, 24 Nosler and 22 Nosler. That’s with big ammo maker support behind them and lots of advertising dollars spent on promotions, paid reviews, etc.

[JASmith]

The 6 mm allows convenient hunting applications from small varmints up through the lighter deer. The movement toward heavier 6mm bullets gives opportunities for mid-range target competition. The largest game weight for regular success however, is still less than about 250-300 lb.

Remember, the Grendel was designed as a deer hunting cartridge with potential for other uses.

There are few cartridges with the range of applications and mild recoil that the Grendel demonstrates. For example, even the 100 gr TTSX is at the lower range of adequacy for Elk. The heavier monolithic hunting bullets can do even better as long as the impact velocity remainss whitin the manufacturer’s recommendations.

[Bonas]

6.5 Grendel was designed specifically as an AR-15 variant cartridge. https://www.alexanderarms.com/history/

OP, in summary, says Grendel has its own advantages separate and apart from AR-15s mostly because of how it reloads.

With cheap steel case, Grendel, in my opinion, was the no-brainer choice for AR variants. With that gone, other choices come into play for AR variants.

For short-action bolt guns, Grendel is even more of a niche cartridge. Reloading-wise, Grendel presents some good advantages, as OP points out. Shooting-wise, other cartridges out perform it, with 6.5 Creedmoor leading that pack.

Grendel's low recoil comes from it shooting (relatively) light bullets at low speeds. That necessarily creates its own ballistic issues.

To me, where Grendel really shines is as a short-range hunting cartridge for compact, i.e. short-barreled, suppressed rifles.

[Stinky Coyote]

For short-action bolt guns, Grendel is even more of a niche cartridge. Reloading-wise, Grendel presents some good advantages, as OP points out. Shooting-wise, other cartridges out perform it, with 6.5 Creedmoor leading that pack.

Grendel's low recoil comes from it shooting (relatively) light bullets at low speeds. That necessarily creates its own ballistic issues.

To me, where Grendel really shines is as a short-range hunting cartridge for compact, i.e. short-barreled, suppressed rifles.

Other cartridges outperform it in what? Barrel life, recoil energy and muzzle blast (more shooters will shoot well and you watch more in scope)? There's 3-4 areas the Grendel beats the Creedmoor while still being more than enough for most 0-400 yard big game hunting where 99.5% of game is killed, Creedmoor almost overkill, 98% under 300 yards. More affordable to shoot, so the unlimited barrel life coupled with being most affordable to shoot and for most shooters possible it's far better matched than Creedmoor. Still bangs steel a long ways out to go along with all that extra shooting you can do. The Grendel shines a lot of places when realistic shooting checkboxes are all on the page, more so than almost any other comer. So the Creedmoor can kill game in the further, in the elrh arena where very few things are killed by very few people (sounds niche to me) and it can compete further like PRS (also niche).

And all AR length cartridge bolt action rifles are niche.

Don't get me wrong, I recommend 6.5 CM to most new people getting their first all round rifle. It may be the most versatile period. But for those who don't care to bang big game to 600 or compete at 1000...the Grendel is most versatile.

[JASmith]

Stinky has it right on!

The Grendel in a good bolt gun with adjustable stock (or AR for that matter) is suitable for youth shooters and with incremental adjustments will keep the fit as he or she grows to full size and on to being very mature.

One can say the Grendel is a "9 to 90" cartridge!

[rickt300]

I started fooling with the Grendel a good bit back, around the time I started on this forum. I found it easy to load for in both bolt guns and the AR. I have had three different Mini HOWA's and they have been sold. I have my original upper from when Alexander Arms was selling a M4 early style look alike upper. I removed the front sight and put a 1-4 power variable on it. I lugged it everywhere for a couple of years, shot all kinds of stuff with it and shot it a lot, settled on a couple loads. I still have that upper but have now started playing with the 350 Legend and cast bullets in an AR platform. Virtually all of my shooting is inside 150 yards. In my opinion the Grendel is a niche cartridge that does it's job very well which to me is shooting anything that needs shooting inside of 250 yards. I personally have noticed a decline in interest in the Grendel. I think it's next big competitor is going to be the 300 Ham'r. I will be ordering a barrel for the Ham'r soon, next toy on the list.

[BluntForceTrauma]

These are gas gun matches that go out to 900 or so yards. Everyone I see adopting a new small frame AR cartridge is going 6ARC. Within this group, Grendel is generally considered inferior to 6ARC.

Yes, when tuning a cartridge for a very specific set of parameters such as long-range matches, the exterior ballistics of the 6mm ARC are superior to the 6.5 Grendel at 900 yards.

I've long argued the Grendel could gain much of that back with a modern hybrid ogive 115gr bullet — but that's another discussion.

With that ammo pretty well gone, 6.8 SPC is arguably better for short range hunting

I'd be interested in hearing you make that "arguably better" argument. What is your reasoning?

[Stinky Coyote]

6mm always wins for the target world over the 6.5, for same powder burned you go further and with less recoil, you're sending less bullet, there are a lot more shooters out there than just long range target shooters or bench rest competitors, and this is where the 6.5 comes in, it always wins in the hunting world. Glad we really hammered that out. For target world I'd take 6 Creed and 6 Arc over both the 6.5 options. I could give a four fisted flying fack about that stuff though, hunting only, I own my own gongs and shoot long to develop a hunting rifle to it's potentials but that's the extent of my target stuff and range time.

[jkingrph]

I'm Canadian so no AR's here, I was all about this cartridge about 2005 when I found out about it and studied ballistics, had to wait until CZ came out with about 12 years later as I only do factory stuff/ammo etc. Have been hunting with it every since (2017/18). 100% this cartridge stands alone without a specific platform...bolt action makes just as much sense as AR imo. It's basically a 3/4 scale .308 running 168's with 55% less recoil, same sd, bc, and impact velocities/trajectory to 500 yards. It hangs with a .243 to a few hundred yards then starts to walk away from the .243 after that (factory to factory) and recoils less. You can't do more with 30 grains of powder than the 6.5g and 123 eld-m combo, overachiever, zero fat, maybe one of the most versatile combo's on the planet when considering all shooters, all disciplines/uses, life, cost etc.

I saw gy first Grendel around that time, an AR and was intrigued. so ended up orderind an upper from Alexander Arms. An Overwatch, tube type free floated arm over a 26" barrel, built a lower for it with a Jewell trigger. I also got the bug for some piston operated guns so built up a similar model as well as a mid length carbine. Somewhere along the line I got to wanting either a bolt action or single shot. I was about ready to get a Ruger #1 and have it rebarreled when CZ came out with it in the little 527, and finally found one, lucked out and got rather nice wood on it. Like most of the CZ bolt actions it was rather rough. A bit of careful stoneing and the cycling with some flitz in the raceways on on lugs slicked it up nicely. Earlier when loaded ammo and brass were almost unobtainable I got a larger quantity of IMI 7.62x39 brass and necked it down to fire form. I did find that lighter fireforming loads would also cycle my AR so had quite a bit of fun while shooting it, of course a zero with full loads hit a lot higher than the fireforming loads, but still shooting paper was fun. For an old man's fun either the AR or bolt action is fun, just enough recoil so you know you have a serious gun, The longest range I have available is 300 yards but it is easy to ring a small steel plate at that range, Never walked down to see the size, but I guess 4 to 6 inches.

[subhuman]

I live in NW Alabama so I have no restrictions on what I can hunt with but there is a grendel among my 3 hunting rifles. My blind looks down a 150 yard power line cut over that I have planted in winter rye there are a couple of mineral blocks that stay out there year round and I feed them during the off season. now with a 150 yard limit the big guns and glass are just overkill , my favorite deer rifle at the moment is my Ruger MPR in 350 legend shoot Hornady American Whitetail with the 170 gr interlock bullet I hammered a 10 point into the ground at about 60 yards with it in Jan. I here people bad mouthing the 350 legend as weak but that 170 gr interlock broke the shoulder I shot ,blew out the heart and lungs on it's way through ,broke the opposite shoulder and was resting under the skin on the off side. Now my Grendel I picked up just a couple months ago it is a Ruger American Ranch, I topped it with a Sig Saur Whiskey 3 2-7x32 scope with a simple duplex retical, muzzle energy between the 6.5G and the 350 legend are very close from muzzle to 100 yards then the Grendal just walks away from the 350 so I;m expecting good things from the Grendal this coming hunting season .I'm playing with 3 rounds for it this summer the Barnes 115 vortex, Hornady ELDm and PPU 120 HPBT . Now my last rifle is of course a 308 I have a Ruger Gunsight Scout 16" Barrel and I use the Hornady 165gr American Whitetail Interlocks it is truly my kill anything anywhere rifle.
Back to the 6.5G I have real high Hopes for it this hunting season and from what I have seen so far I do not expect to be disappointed .

[Hertervillian]

I came to the Grendel for most of the reasons quoted by OP.

I’ve been shooting 5 different rifles each of which are proven Elk killing machines. 4 of them kill on both ends equally well. None are exactly fun range toys. They are the 3’ pipe wrenches of the rifle world. Nothing better when that’s what is called for.

I just don’t need that much overkill, I need enough gun, just enough. It does what the 257 Roberts was doing decades ago, but more efficiently and in a smaller package.

[JASmith]

+1 !!

[Stinky Coyote]

I came to the Grendel for most of the reasons quoted by OP.

I’ve been shooting 5 different rifles each of which are proven Elk killing machines. 4 of them kill on both ends equally well. None are exactly fun range toys. They are the 3’ pipe wrenches of the rifle world. Nothing better when that’s what is called for.

I just don’t need that much overkill, I need enough gun, just enough. It does what the 257 Roberts was doing decades ago, but more efficiently and in a smaller package.

+2

and same with the .243 win 100gr partition combo, know an older fella with 8 rams on the wall who migrated to that combo early in his hunting career and killed everything with it 0-300 yards, not just rams, have read of multiple other old timers who were deadly on everything with .243's and that bullet combo, but agree the 6.5 Grendel is the 21st century interpretation of the 20th century .243/.257 bob options, bullet choice is more critical when playing on the niche end of the horsepower spectrums, that goes for all 3, heavy for cal with ability to open up while still keep enough attached to drive deep enough, they work better than expected with zero fat

[WSAR15]

I still feel the 6.5 Grendel is great round and the best suited (non 5.56) in the standard AR platforms. My world ends at 400yds and it replaces a heavier AR in 308 very nicely,

[Timitus]

"I just don’t need that much overkill, I need enough gun, just enough. It does what the 257 Roberts was doing decades ago, but more efficiently and in a smaller package."

This is one of the reasons that I was drawn to the Grendel as well.