I'm in a pickle

[Ol' Paulie]

So I just priced up an upper because I wanted a 20in upper and i wanted some quality to it. Turns out I'll be spending about around 2k to put it all together! I don't think I have ever even seen 2k in person lol.

Here's my parts list:

Aero precision stripped upper $80 https://www.primaryarms.com/aero-precisi...r-ap501603

topographical dust cover hatch $20 https://trashpandatactical.com/shop/ols/...dust-cover

Forward Controls Design Forward Assist $50 https://www.primaryarms.com/forward-cont...ist-dimple

Breek Arms Warhammer AR-15 Ambidextrous Charging Handle $50 https://www.primaryarms.com/breek-arms-w...lter=1star

MAGNESIUM HYPER-LIGHT M-LOK HANDGUARD AR-15 $400 https://www.vsevenweaponsystems.com/magn...rd-ar15-11

"BARREL, 6.5 GRENDEL, RECON, 20"", FLUTED, STAINLESS, GLASS BEAD, 1-8" $305 https://shopwilsoncombat.com/BARREL-65-G...RCRG20FT8/

Wilson Combat Gas Block $40 https://shopwilsoncombat.com/Gas-Block-L...o/TR-LPGB/

Armor Tuff barrel coating $40 https://shopwilsoncombat.com/Armor-Tuff-...o/AT-BLGU/

Melonite Gas Tube $20 https://www.primaryarms.com/aero-precisi...fle-length

Aero Precision BCG $140 https://www.huckleberryarms.com/AERO-PRE...00725c.htm

Primary Arms SLx 3-18x50mm FFP Rifle Scope - Illuminated ACSS APOLLO .308/6.5 Grendel Reticle $500 https://www.primaryarms.com/pa-3-18x50mm...08-reticle

3-18x50 Sunshade $30 https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms...-dmr-scope

Warne scope mount $150 https://www.amazon.com/Warne-Scope-Mount...B00TZHQTSG

Streamlight 88059 ProTac Rail Mount 2 $120 https://www.amazon.com/Streamlight-88059...a82fda505f

I'm thinking about saying screw it and just getting the larue match upper but I really wanted a 20in barrel and I don't see as much praise outside of reviews on the website, or any other reviews for that matter. I'm also a little skeptical of the 1/7 twist rate for 6.5 grendel. Use cases would be for hunting and general use.

Any help on making a good upper or just telling me that the larue is indeed worth it over building it would be much appreciated.

[grayfox]

Get a lilja 20" barrel from lilja website. $500.
Get the vortex 3-18x44 strike eagle scope ($350) from eurooptics. sunshade later if you decide on it.
Get everything else from joebob's. Fully assembled aero upper. Generics work fine for the rest (exc maybe a cantilever mount, 30mm your choice Amazon I'm using monstrum/burris 30 mm- unless you plan on really rough-housing use. but not any ultralights, they are too flimsy).
the teeth on the breek warhammer handle-grips are too sharp to be comfortable to the fingers imo. radians work great however. I doubt you need the ambi style but its up to you.
Handguard, again... a generic is fine, or use a midwest industries, I don't see any value-for-$$ of that magnesium HG.

Spend $$ on barrel, scope, trigger. The rest mostly holds stuff together.
1:7 is ok but actually a little tight imo. 1:8 is standard and works great. Mag length and case capacity usually limits how many really long bullets you might use anyway, so 1:7 not needed.

I personally like the 20" barrel, and Lilja is a top notch one, I have the 740 model. Not interested in "armor tuff", like I said, unless you're going to war with this one then maybe.

my 2 cents.

[Ol' Paulie]

I do plan on running around in the forest or the plains with it so durability and reliability are a bit of a concern though you do bring up a good point. I somehow thought that every part on an AR had to be premium lol

[tdbru]

have you considered just doing a search for a 20" 6.5 Grendel complete upper?

https://moriartiarmaments.com/6.5-grendel-uppers
https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/caliber...ppers.html
https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-6-5-grendel-uppers/
https://sandersarmoryusa.com/product/san...-assembly/
https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/m4e1-en...-ss-barrel
https://ar15parts.com/upper-assemblies/6...pers-ar15/
https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/6-5-gre...flash.html

that's only a few of the search results that came up out there.
costs for complete uppers range from just under 3 bills to as much as you want to spend I suppose.

depends if you're expecting 1/4MOA or smaller groups? if so big $ on barrel. As GrayFox pointed out, barrel quality has a major effect on rifle accuracy.

also depends on if you're looking for a heavy build or a featherweight build. barrel, handguard, scope and mount have a big influence on weight.

also depends if you want to get the tools and training and build an upper yourself, for the experience.

my first upper was a budget complete upper. shoots "average" 1.25 to 1.5 MOA. I really need to shoot it some more. I think it'll settle down with a few more rounds down the tube. and I was learning how to shoot the AR platform as the ergo's were totally different than anything I had used before.

my 2nd upper I wanted to assemble it from parts to learn how to do that, and to get a much lighter build with just the parts I wanted.

So it depends on many things. Blunt Force Trauma on this forum has a nice site for a 20" tube, though it appears he's out of stock on it at the moment: https://www.sixfiveoutfitters.com/

I wanted a light weight 20" upper build when I was putting my 2nd upper together, so went with the faxon gunner profile barrel as it appeared to be the lightest 20" production tube I could find. And considered each part of the upper for function vs weight and made my choices.

if you want to learn and are willing to take your time and do the research, assembling your own upper from a basket of parts was a great learning experience for me. I like to tinker with that kind of thing. Others just want to put a complete upper on, attach a scope, and get to the range and zero it and do some shooting. For them a complete off the shelf upper is more in line with their interests I would think.

if you want an upper out of the range of normal offerings, that you'll have to assemble from parts like I did to get a much lighter weight AR than "normal". If weight is not that critical and 1 to 2 MOA is acceptable, than there are likely many off the shelf 20" complete uppers that could work fine for you. It's not always the case but likely the spendier off the shelf offerings are that way due to higher quality barrels being used.

As I stated at the beginning, if you expect 1/4 MOA, you're going to spend a LOT on the upper, no surprise. Match rifles are spendy.

Good luck with your decision. I couldn't decide between a long barreled heavy match AR vs a light weight hunting one. So I got 2 very different 6.5 Grendel uppers eventually, that cover the two extremes.

-tdbru

[Ol' Paulie]

What did you think of the faxon barrel just curious

[grayfox]

As far as mid tier barrels go, if you can't get one from sixfive arms like tdbru says, I'd go for ballistic advantage over faxon. the BA shoots a bit better than faxon imo, but yeah, both are kinda hit and miss, being rack grade barrels. I have several BA's in service, but retired or sold the faxons.
Criterions are also pretty good.

[Klem]

Paul,

For an extra $200 you go from a rack grade barrel to Olympic grade. The barrel has a disproportionate influence on where the rounds go.

I'd also be wary of a scope that costs much less than the gun. The gun is basically a system where the weakest link limits its potential.

Larue's gear is reputable, but not Olympic grade. Larue spends a lot of money building their brand through marketing, and their prices reflect this. You could build the same for less.

[Ol' Paulie]

Would you go for lilja for what you are suggesting? I don't really know what Olympic grade barrels are, but I am looking at building something for hunting or SHTF I'm not really a precision shooter (but extra accuracy never helps)

[Klem]

Would you go for lilja for what you are suggesting? I don't really know what Olympic grade barrels are, but I am looking at building something for hunting or SHTF I'm not really a precision shooter (but extra accuracy never helps)

Olympic grade means the manufacturer has provided barrels to Olympic competitors in the past. It's safe to assume they are the best quality.

My current Grendel barrel is a Lilja.

[Zeneffect]

Jamaican bobsled team

See who is winning matches. If shtf grendel would not be my go to. .223 will be way way way easier to scavenge.

[Klem]

Jamaican bobsled team

See who is winning matches. If shtf grendel would not be my go to. .223 will be way way way easier to scavenge.

Paul,

In larger countries, in order to qualify as a national representative you have to have won a few matches. Zene's Jamaican case stands out because it is unusual - I am talking about usual. If you can search beyond manufacturers sponsoring shooters for marketing/goodwill and focus on who's winning what, with what barrels - that's a pretty good heuristic for quality.

Bartlein, Krieger and Lilja barrels have had a long-term excellent reputation. You might get lucky with cheaper barrels, but it will be a lottery.

Here's a relevant source of info from the PRS guys. Hart, Lilja and Shilen are not on that list, and I don't think Broughton makes barrels anymore. Some very good barrels also made overseas but US barrels are hands-down the best in the world and won't attract import duty.

Lilja and Shilen are easy choices as they sell ready-to-fit Grendel chambered AR barrels. Krieger might too if you contact them, but there will be a wait time. The others you will have to get profiled by a gunsmith, or buy through a gunsmith like Precision Firearms. Again, it's only $200-$300 more than a rack grade barrel but it will define the gun, and the same cost in ammunition is gone pretty quickly.

[tdbru]

There are of course better barrels than faxon. Since I wanted a light build but wanted 20", the faxon gunner profile was really the only thing I found. sixfivearms was out of 20" tubes when I was looking. Seems they still are. The faxon gunner profile barrel is a rack grade barrel, but with a tuned load will average 1 MOA. some groups do a slight bit under, some groups are a bit over. better barrels do better of course. but for big game out to 250 yards, the rifle accuracy will not be the limitation. my hunting (in)ability will actually determine my success. Bartlein, Krieger, Lijla, Brux are all making winning class barrels. I've heard good things about Wilson combat as well. it depends on how much accuracy you want to pay for.

If you want to pick your own barrel, handguard, gas block, etc. like you were envisioning, it will get spendy. most off the shelf uppers will likely use rack grade barrels unless they state otherwise. and will be priced accordingly. Rack grade barrels are a gamble on if they will group well. the top custom barrel makers will give you a great shooting barrel to start with.

and the advice about the glass is also very good. Don't chince out on that either. Klem has some sound advice.

So sit down and figure out how much accuracy is essential, and what would be nice to have, for the anticipated shooting / hunting you plan on, and look at your budget. Also think about what finished weight you want when done. then start juggling the variables and see what fits.

Good luck Paulie,
-tdbru

[Ol' Paulie]

If .223 is easier to scavenge in shtf it would equally equate that fully assembled .223 uppers are as well.

[Ol' Paulie]

Jamaican bobsled team

See who is winning matches. If shtf grendel would not be my go to. .223 will be way way way easier to scavenge.

If .223 is easier to scavenge in shtf it would equally equate that fully assembled .223 uppers are as well.

[Ol' Paulie]

Paul,

In larger countries, in order to qualify as a national representative you have to have won a few matches. Zene's Jamaican case stands out because it is unusual - I am talking about usual. If you can search beyond manufacturers sponsoring shooters for marketing/goodwill and focus on who's winning what, with what barrels - that's a pretty good heuristic for quality.

Bartlein, Krieger and Lilja barrels have had a long-term excellent reputation. You might get lucky with cheaper barrels, but it will be a lottery.

Here's a relevant source of info from the PRS guys. Hart, Lilja and Shilen are not on that list, and I don't think Broughton makes barrels anymore. Some very good barrels also made overseas but US barrels are hands-down the best in the world and won't attract import duty.

Lilja and Shilen are easy choices as they sell ready-to-fit Grendel chambered AR barrels. Krieger might too if you contact them, but there will be a wait time. The others you will have to get profiled by a gunsmith, or buy through a gunsmith like Precision Firearms. Again, it's only $200-$300 more than a rack grade barrel but it will define the gun, and the same cost in ammunition is gone pretty quickly.

I found a pretty good deal for a 16" lilja on six sigma that seems to fit my needs, I'm not looking to make 800yrd hunts in as much as I want the potential to be gtg at 600. I think I might go for the 16" lilja.. what do you think?

[VASCAR2]

Six Sigma Arms are good to go. The owner is a member on this forum. He hasn’t been quite as active recently on the forum but he is very busy between work and family obligations. Lilja barrels get very good reviews on this forum and they stand behind their products. If your needing other components for your build check out 6.5 Outfitters.


https://www.sixfiveoutfitters.com/


https://sixsigmaarms.com/products.php?d=61

16” Lilja 6.5 Grendel barrel

[Fess]

I found a pretty good deal for a 16" lilja on six sigma that seems to fit my needs, I'm not looking to make 800yrd hunts in as much as I want the potential to be gtg at 600.

There is a BIG difference in hunting with a Grendel at 600 yards and shooting steel. I am more conservative than many here, but I don't consider the 6.5 Grendel to be a 600 yard hunting cartridge. Also be aware that most data for factory ammo is with a 24" barrel. The bullet will be going pretty slow out there so expansion will be an issue. Any wind will move the bullet a fair distance laterally.

[Ol' Paulie]

Well I mean most hunting isn't done 500yrds away though right? What's a good expectation for a 16in barrel?

[tdbru]

Paulie,
I tend to agree with Fess.

Most bullet manufacturers will list a minimum impact velocity for expansion on their hunting bullets. from your muzzle velocity use any ballistic program to figure out at what distance your bullet will be at the impact velocity limit for expansion. this is your max hunting distance, or it is mine. if the bullet impacts too slow it most likely will perform just like an FMJ. FMJs are prohibited by most fish and game depts for big game hunting. You can whack steel at a long way away. or punch paper at 1000 yards. but the hunting distance, for me, is governed by the remaining bullet speed necessary to initiate expansion. and that distance can vary from bullet manufacturer/type to another.

best to you,
-tdbru

[Ol' Paulie]

Thank you for the input folks. So for 500 to 600m I should stick with 20"?