6.5 Grendel on it's own merits

[Stinky Coyote]

Yeah you have to define what you shoot before saying one is better than other. Paper/steel punchers at distance go 6mm, impact velocities offer 150-170 yard advantage over Grendel (103/8 vs 123 eld-m) for hunting but problem is most hunting is sub 500 yard game and most ar length cartridge hunting is under than and the Grendel has plenty of impact velocity within that so will take the bigger pill all day, the added 'range' of the Arc is useless in hunting unless you're of the very few who would do extra long range hunting and especially so with an AR length cartridge. And short barrel length efficiencies to the slower of the two also would be my take. Unless you’re into competition or extreme long distance shooting/hunting the Grendel hits more check boxes, is more rounded and versatile without being weak anywhere. The 6.5 Creedmoor will always get the nod over the 6mm Creedmoor, its an age old thing, 260 vs .243, the 6mm vs 6.5 but the formula is no different for these shorties but hunting the 6.5 always gets the nod over the 6mm options. Target work seems to favour the 6mm's.

[gldprimr]

I use the 6.5 Grendel in a CZ-527 for deer hunting. It is my primary deer hunting rifle. I have other rifles if I wanted another rifle/cartridge. The nice thing about the 6.5 Grendel is that it is more than sufficient for the job while possessing the characteristics of low recoil, good accuracy, kills well and frankly just a joy to shoot & hunt with. I haven’t lost or had a hard recovery of game with any of the animals I’ve taken with it. Granted that my white tail hunting is in Mississippi where brush/cover is thick and ranges are short however with that being the case why use more gun when it really isn’t necessary?

[gldprimr]

A characteristic of the 6.5 Grendel not discussed a great deal is its modest report or noise relative to larger volume cartridges. I know the 24” barrel on my CZ-527 contributes to that reduced muzzle report. I deer hunt areas that I would term ‘small woods’ not large acreages with some small ridges, little creek bottoms/branches - more what I think of when hunting small game such as squirrel or rabbit. I’ve taken two deer on a friends place over the past week. In both cases my friend was out working around their house and remarked that they did not hear the shot. Neither deer went far after the shot (~ 30 Yards) and were easily recovered. The more I use the little cartridge the more I appreciate just how good it is for my hunting needs.

[Stinky Coyote]

A characteristic of the 6.5 Grendel not discussed a great deal is its modest report or noise relative to larger volume cartridges. I know the 24” barrel on my CZ-527 contributes to that reduced muzzle report. I deer hunt areas that I would term ‘small woods’ not large acreages with some small ridges, little creek bottoms/branches - more what I think of when hunting small game such as squirrel or rabbit. I’ve taken two deer on a friends place over the past week. In both cases my friend was out working around their house and remarked that they did not hear the shot. Neither deer went far after the shot (~ 30 Yards) and were easily recovered. The more I use the little cartridge the more I appreciate just how good it is for my hunting needs.

x2 on this, one of my sons got a second shot at a missed coyote which is unheard of, 80 yards miss with wind in our favour then it stopped at 120 after a trot away and looked back at blind offering second opportunity, on top of this the deer we've shot at, and the deer around the deer we've shot at, have not at all reacted like they typically do with the higher pressure larger volume cases, until you field the Grendel for awhile and get some kills under your belt you start to realize what a great advantage this is, for multiple opportunities etc. I believe this is a huge benefit as well

[tdbru]

SC,
the lower muzzle report issue is also part of why I put long tubes on my upper builds and picked the 22" howa mini. Having ruined my hearing as a kid with LOUD rifles and poorly muffled heavy machinery, and now wearing hearing aids, do mind your hearing. when you lose it, it's gone. no reversing it yet anyway. I realize 16" and shorter barrels are quite handy, and the MV loss isn't too bad, the hearing loss is another matter entirely. If you're running suppressed, great, that is smart. Otherwise, the longer barrels may not be as handy, but the muzzle pressure goes down quite a bit with them. Save your hearing. I also, personally, appreciate the little bit extra MV a longer tube brings. To each their own of course, but do protect your hearing! with 30dB muffs on, the muzzle blast from a longer tube can be attenuated to below the damage threshold. I'm not so sure with a short tube and the higher sound pressure, if just muffs alone can get the noise down below the damage threshold. You are correct that the smaller case volume (and lower SAAMI pressure spec) does reduce muzzle pressure as compared to, say, a 243 Win, which is another popular light recoiling deer caliber. If it just wasn't such a pain to jump through the legal hoops and cost of a suppressor, I'd sure use them, ugly as they are, when out hunting.
best regards,
tdbru

[Stinky Coyote]

SC,
the lower muzzle report issue is also part of why I put long tubes on my upper builds and picked the 22" howa mini. Having ruined my hearing as a kid with LOUD rifles and poorly muffled heavy machinery, and now wearing hearing aids, do mind your hearing. when you lose it, it's gone. no reversing it yet anyway. I realize 16" and shorter barrels are quite handy, and the MV loss isn't too bad, the hearing loss is another matter entirely. If you're running suppressed, great, that is smart. Otherwise, the longer barrels may not be as handy, but the muzzle pressure goes down quite a bit with them. Save your hearing. I also, personally, appreciate the little bit extra MV a longer tube brings. To each their own of course, but do protect your hearing! with 30dB muffs on, the muzzle blast from a longer tube can be attenuated to below the damage threshold. I'm not so sure with a short tube and the higher sound pressure, if just muffs alone can get the noise down below the damage threshold. You are correct that the smaller case volume (and lower SAAMI pressure spec) does reduce muzzle pressure as compared to, say, a 243 Win, which is another popular light recoiling deer caliber. If it just wasn't such a pain to jump through the legal hoops and cost of a suppressor, I'd sure use them, ugly as they are, when out hunting.
best regards,
tdbru

Yup agree. As we win this war between good and evil and the world makes its shift back to humanity and all these corrupted puppets and governments fall...then even us in Canada logic will prevail and we will get suppressors. Tbac ultra 5’s will be going on our rugers when possible lol. It’s a blessing and a curse being of the few who can see the future. It’s very bright indeed.

[MachV]

After years of shooting the 20 and 22PPCs the Grendel was not a hard sell. The first one was not an AR but the CZ527 bolt gun.
However the Grendel sure makes the AR a viable hunting unit!
The Grendels are my first chioce but if the wind is howling the Sweede gets the call

[Redleg11B]

I personally have no interest in the Grendel in an AR platform. I have always thought of it as a great GP round for deer, varmint, and whatever else needs dead in a compact bolt gun. It is easier on the shoulder and ears than a 308, has similar flight characteristics, can be had in more compact bolt guns, and uses less powder for its punch.

It has taken me a while to actually pursue it as such, but some of the other stuff I had was fun and working well (until it wasn't). I changed where and how I deer hunt, so need something with more legs than a 300 Whisper. I don't get to shoot groundhogs 3 days a week anymore, so the lower cost of a 223 is not a priority. Years of climbing cell towers wrecked my shoulder, so the lighter recoil is a huge benefit for me that doesn not give up practicality for hunting deer sized game to my own limit of 300 yards. It is definately going to be a fun cartridge to learn and use.

[Yendor6.5]

I wanted a Ruger 77/44, blued and walnut. If you could find one, the seller was out to skin you alive. The Howa Mini 6.5 Grendel barreled action, a Stocky's blem CF stock, and real metal bottom metal, and you're getting close to $1000. What you get for 2/3rds of the money of that 77/44 (check gunbroker if you don't believe me) is a .6 MOA pussycat that'll produce one shot hits way further than any 44. That goofy 2 piece bolt on the 77/44 was always a point on contention for me anyways.

Like just about everyone else, I have a half dozen ARs. I have a couple of .308s, and a Creedmore or 2, And I like them a lot. There's something very appealing about a sleek, simple little bolt gun that has plenty of juice to get the job done.

[eggman918]

Until the Grendel was brought to my attention the AR platform had very little attraction for me personally, the Grendel checks all the boxes for a centerfire rifle at this point in my life.

[603 Country]

I moved to the Grendel because the 223 AR wasn’t doing it for me in hog hunting. And the Pic Rail allows me to swap out NV scopes and daylight scopes as needed. Personally, I can’t see much reason for me to want one in a bolt gun though. I have a super accurate 260 bolt gun for deer. I can shoot the same bullets at 2800 fps rather than 2400 fps.

Would the Grendel exist if not for the AR platform? Maybe not, but you have to figure that somebody would neck down the AK round sooner or later, and we’d have a new round with a different name.

[LRRPF52]

One thing that still is interesting to me is how a tiny little case like Grendel can duplicate the ballistics of the 6.5x52 Carcano and the 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Shoenauer.

17.5” and 30.7” barreled Carcanos correspond to 18” and 24” Grendels respectively.

It does not match the 6.5x50 Jap, 6.5x57, or 6.5x55 Mauser however, which are roughly duplicated with the .260 Rem, 6.5x47 Lapua, and 6.5 Creedmoor. 6.5x55 Mauser SKAN has more gas in the tank and modern pressure ratings, so it will out-perform the 6.5-08 class of cartridges a bit.

When I had the Howa Grendel, every time I fired, I was saying to myself, “Why is it not doing the...the...you know... THE THING!!!???”

I grew up on bolt guns and the universe did everything in its power to make me into a bolt gun guy, but I am a dirty gas gun lover first and foremost, despite those attempts. :o

[eggman918]

My youngest grand daughter enjoys my heavy AR and I have been thinking a nice light Grendel bolt gun might be in order, a younger still grand son will be another possible user
for it so how can Grandma say no. A nice light Grendel bolt gun should be a joy to shoot.

[Bonas]

The loss of sub $.30 per round Barnaul ammo for Grendel might prove to be a heavy blow for the cartridge. That cheap plinking ammo really set Grendel apart from its competitors. I'm not seeing many new adopters of the cartridge.

[JASmith]

...I'm not seeing many new adopters of the cartridge.

What sources do you see that support the conclusion?

How do these numbers compare with other cartridges?

Remember, a new kid on the block with heavy support by a major cartridge company almost always sees a significant flurry of interest in the first few years. Then the tried and true tend to come out on top.

The Grendel is now in its 20th year since first being introduced at the Blackwater Shoot-Out in 2003.

[gldprimr]

eggman918 - The Grendel bolt guns are a joy to shoot and your grandchildren will not be undergunned using it. They are fun, don’t knock you silly with recoil and have low muzzle blast. What’s not to like ?

[eggman918]

gldprimr, I agree 100% it has enough of what is needed to do any task we would ever call on it to do and as you said in an extremely user friendly package.

[Stinky Coyote]

What sources do you see that support the conclusion?

How do these numbers compare with other cartridges?

Remember, a new kid on the block with heavy support by a major cartridge company almost always sees a significant flurry of interest in the first few years. Then the tried and true tend to come out on top.

The Grendel is now in its 20th year since first being introduced at the Blackwater Shoot-Out in 2003.

Agree, it's a late bloomer if anything, it's just getting warmed up. But it's earned it's stripes and proven itself now for a long enough period. There's no flies on it. You can't do more for ~30 grains of powder burned. Lots of support factory wise in rifles and ammo and that is only going to steadily expand throughout this century.

[Bonas]

What sources do you see that support the conclusion?

How do these numbers compare with other cartridges?

Remember, a new kid on the block with heavy support by a major cartridge company almost always sees a significant flurry of interest in the first few years. Then the tried and true tend to come out on top.

The Grendel is now in its 20th year since first being introduced at the Blackwater Shoot-Out in 2003.

I base it on my personal experience at matches. These are gas gun matches that go out to 900 or so yards. Everyone I see adopting a new small frame AR cartridge is going 6ARC. Within this group, Grendel is generally considered inferior to 6ARC. With cheap ammo readily available, Grendel was, at least to me, a no brainer. With that ammo pretty well gone, 6.8 SPC is arguably better for short range hunting, while 6ARC is better for longer range target shooting. I think Grendel is a great cartridge, but the fact remains that a big edge it had over competitors is gone. Just look at this forum. There's not exactly a flood of new members pouring in. Beyond that, Federal seems to have stopped producing ammo for Grendel. Prvi seems to be going away too. Hornady, Barnes, Nosler, and AA seem to be the only companies currently making new supplies. Of those, Hornady is the only major player. Again, it's a great cartridge, but its usage seems to be shrinking, not growing, at least to me. Hopefully, Hornady keeps producing decent quantities of ammo.

[Stinky Coyote]

I base it on my personal experience at matches. These are gas gun matches that go out to 900 or so yards. Everyone I see adopting a new small frame AR cartridge is going 6ARC. Within this group, Grendel is generally considered inferior to 6ARC. With cheap ammo readily available, Grendel was, at least to me, a no brainer. With that ammo pretty well gone, 6.8 SPC is arguably better for short range hunting, while 6ARC is better for longer range target shooting. I think Grendel is a great cartridge, but the fact remains that a big edge it had over competitors is gone. Just look at this forum. There's not exactly a flood of new members pouring in. Beyond that, Federal seems to have stopped producing ammo for Grendel. Prvi seems to be going away too. Hornady, Barnes, Nosler, and AA seem to be the only companies currently making new supplies. Of those, Hornady is the only major player. Again, it's a great cartridge, but its usage seems to be shrinking, not growing, at least to me. Hopefully, Hornady keeps producing decent quantities of ammo.

Anyone that can do math can quickly see the 6.8 is a deer only set up that falls flat on it's face quickly. I ran the 6.8 before I could get the Grendel, it was a brief run, felt it was about wrapped up by just over 200 yards and with it's SD was really only a deer size game contender. The Grendel has elk/moose qualifying SD bullets in the 123's that can hold similar hit probability (due to higher bc) to near double the range of the 6.8. They aren't even in the same league in terms of hunting potential for game on this continent. Blew through a quartering whitetail at 420 that dropped with a 16" Grendel, I thought it was pretty miraculous to kill a doe at 220 with my 6.8 110's and it did a runner so was a long walk to get relief. So the 6.8 is arguably an adequate 250 yard deer round but the Grendel adds 150 yards to that easily and goes beyond deer size game. They only fit in the same magazine/action length as their only similarity.

The 6.5x55 survived, because it has the right numbers, the 6.5 Grendel is a couple decades in now...because it has the right numbers. Will it be a rager like the Creedmoor? No. Will the ARC be a rager yup, the world has been dying for a short fat factory 6 like a ppc/br/dasher, so surprised it took that long. And if you can put 2 and 2 together you'll see the ARC (which is a 6 Grendel) will drag the 6.5 Grendel along nicely as there are more target guys than hunters but the hunters will do what they usually do between 6 and 6.5 choices....they will gravitate towards the 6.5 for hunting. Any x39 case based well supported factory round will likely be around a long long time, well played Grendel creators and Hornady for recognizing the long term potential with that case and applying 21st century bullets/design to it.

And yup, Hornady makes great ammo, likely part of the reason others don't sell as much and opting out. That's not gonna slow down and the ARC will ensure that case and ammo will carry on for a long time also. They will support the 6.5 and 6 Creedmoor no differently, both will remain big successes throughout this century.

How long has the 6.8 been out? Hows it done in that time compared to the Grendel? Lol...The Grendel withstood the flash in the pan phenomenon because it has all the right numbers. A bolt action only Canadian learned about it in about 2005, have wanted one since, not even considering a gas gun. That should tell you that any ballistics nerd will find the good stuff quickly and easily. It should also tell you likelihood of it being a survivor also.

Edit; And your experience on the matches. 6 Arc offers a 150-170 yard distance advantage for similar impact speeds (103/108 gr hornady loads vs the 123 6.5)...and that's while you'll see target guys move to the 6 but in hunting world that extra distance is already beyond where 99% of game is taken so it's only beneficial to the target guys or the very few elrh hunting guys. 0-500 hunting the Grendel has no fat, no weakness, the Arc gives up barrel life and being under 120 gr bullet weight as 2 disadvantages to the Grendel. Grendel is most balanced and well rounded on more checkboxes one may choose in a cartridge.