Do all guys in Texas have X-ray vision?

[CJW]

Ok here is the deal….

I’ve watched all 803 videos that DNS and Ben have made hunting pigs….these are very, very interesting,
to say the least I’ve been inspired by them.

When I watch them approaching a sounder, they look like they are trying to qualify for the 100 yard dash for the Olympics.

Two weeks ago I was in a field with chopped cotton, with deep furrows…..I stumbled going over a furrow, gun & shooting sticks hit the dirt with me. I hit some dried cut cotton stems that were like rebar …

How do you guys navigate at night so we’ll on the stalk?

I hunt a lot of row crops in Georgia.. My hunting buddy is much younger than me and insist that the hunt is ruined if you use any light at all as you approach the sounder.

Where I fell, I would have hard time navigating the area in the daytime.

I’m going to start using a light anyway. With all the ruckus, we still managed to get to the sounder and kill one pig. For fear that I might have some dirt in my barrel I didn’t shoot.

Do you boys use headlamps on the stalk????

Live Big,

Chuck

[oyster]

Personally I just go slow and most nights there's enough light to see most obstacles. Also if I'm hunting harvested fields I try to go with the rows even if it's been cut low. Pigs will tolerate some noise but I check on them with my scanner every few minutes and if they stop feeding to look around I stop till they go back to feeding.
Jay

[Double Naught Spy]

When I watch them approaching a sounder, they look like they are trying to qualify for the 100 yard dash for the Olympics.

Two weeks ago I was in a field with chopped cotton, with deep furrows…..I stumbled going over a furrow, gun & shooting sticks hit the dirt with me. I hit some dried cut cotton stems that were like rebar …

How do you guys navigate at night so we’ll on the stalk?

Chuck! Thanks for watching! HOLY MOLY!

Smart folks navigate with Gen 3+ night vision, but scan and shoot with thermal. I use thermal for all three, but I don't use thermal to watch my steps, but will look at the ground ahead of me and then proceed, say, 20 yards, stop and repeat while checking on the hogs as well. This works okay. Vegetation hiding the ground is always a problem regardless of whether you are using a flashlight, NV, or thermal.

The speed at which we stalk is often dependent on environmental conditions, ground conditions, familiarity with the land, and behavior of the hogs. For example, it is hard to move quickly and quietly when things are dry and crunchy. It is hard to move quickly when the land is rooted or traversed by erosional gullies. If I am on a property or area of a property I am not familiar with, I am more apt to go slowly.

I have taken a number of tumbles. Most are very minor. A few have managed to send me to the doctor or the ER.

The way Ben keeps from falling down is by following me. If I suddenly disappear from sight, followed by a thud and/or cursing, Ben knows to stop and then proceed very cautiously to help retrieve me. A fellow I hunted with years ago wasn't so keen. He fell in the same little ravines I did, both times after being warned, the second time actually falling on me!

I am NOT an advocate of wearing a headlamp that is on when I stalk because I am afraid it will spook the hogs. However, I know of a guy that will stalk to within 50 yards of hogs with his light on, go dark, set up, and start shooting. Being the learners that they are, hogs will come to associate being shot at with headlamps being on in the field and run away in the future when they see headlamps in the field. So I have to believe that while a headlamp may be beneficial to your stalk, it may not be beneficial to your hunts.

Have I seen hogs chased away by headlamps being on? No. But, I have seen hogs spooked by the dim red glow of an 850 nm IR light. Actually, I have seen this several times. While they don't see the shine, they do see the glow and if they have been hunted previously in that manner and see the red glowing orb before the shooting starts, they are apt to be running before the shooting starts.

With that said, if I have scanned the area to make sure there are no more hogs and if I am concerned about the ground, I will walk out with my light on, but only as bright as I need it. This isn't good fieldcraft, but I figure that if I am done for the night or believe the hogs are done for now, no reason to risk taking a tumble.

If I think hogs may still be around, instead of using a white light, I will use a red light to make my way out.

Bottom Line: You gotta do what you need to stay safe.

Also, I have a tracking app on my phone, such that if something happens, my wife will at least know where I am if I am unable to call.

[Billinthedesert]

OK, so the next question is can you see rattlesnakes with Gen 3 vision?

[Double Naught Spy]

Of course you can. With that said, camo works against NV. A snake can be very hard to see because of its patterning and the background behind/around it, even out in the open. If camo works well for the animal in daylight, it works even better at night with NV. Thermal is another matter. IF (BIG IF) the snake is sufficiently contrasted by temperature from its surroundings, there is an excellent chance you can see it on thermal, regardless of the camo pattern and how well it matches its surroundings. It doesn't take a huge temperature difference to see the snake, but if the snake has been in the same spot for hours, chances are it is about the same temp as its surroundings. A moving snake or snake recently moved to a spot tends to carry its own level of heat over terrain and vegetation that will vary in temperature and hence the snake will appear to stand out.

A snake well blended and the same temp as its surroundings will be nearly impossible to see at night with naked eyes, NV, or thermal, FYI.

[Klem]

Talking about moving through the bush at night with NVG's I will add that there is a big difference when using them in stereoscope. For example, the difference between fitting a single PVS14 (3 Gen) to a helmet and using a PVS15 with its two tubes. Stereoscopic vision allows you to judge distance much better and gives confidence when walking over lumpy ground. Same when driving, although the shadows for potholes can be shallow or deep, and you won't know that until you drive into a big hole. Another barrier is the cost of having two tubes instead of one.

While NVG sees detail the only time I have seen it surpass thermal in shooting was at 300M shooting on steel at night. The background of the steel was the rifle range butts and the thermals could not see any temperature difference. Of course that is absolutely no useful advantage when what you are training to shoot will be warm.

[diggler1833]

Real men walk off embankments...ask me how I know.

Fell into an armadillo hole last night trying to chase a boar around a pasture. Made enough noise that he heard, and it was a horse race to get him dead before he left for good.

[tdbru]

Quick question for those who know, because I don't.

I have read that for most prey mammals, they only have rods in the retina and hence don't see color, though due to the amount/density of the rods in the retina, they see b/w and shades of gray pretty good even in low light, like at night.

would a RED LED that emits at one wavelength be invisible to a pig? Do pigs have any cones in the retina or are they all rods like many other mammals? I've always used a red led head lamp or red led flashlight to move through to a hunting area early morning before dawn because it was my understanding that deer couldn't see the red light from an LED since they have no cones in the retina.

I was wondering if pigs were the same. There was enough red light given off by the LED that close range navigation (within 5 feet) was possible at night.

thanks,
-tdbru

[CJW]

That is a great question tdbru

[Double Naught Spy]

Quick question for those who know, because I don't.

I have read that for most prey mammals, they only have rods in the retina and hence don't see color, though due to the amount/density of the rods in the retina, they see b/w and shades of gray pretty good even in low light, like at night.

would a RED LED that emits at one wavelength be invisible to a pig? Do pigs have any cones in the retina or are they all rods like many other mammals? I've always used a red led head lamp or red led flashlight to move through to a hunting area early morning before dawn because it was my understanding that deer couldn't see the red light from an LED since they have no cones in the retina.

I was wondering if pigs were the same. There was enough red light given off by the LED that close range navigation (within 5 feet) was possible at night.

thanks,
-tdbru

I believe you have read incorrectly. A lot of animals (predator, prey, herbivore, carnivore, omnivore) are red-green colorblind like deer, hogs, most (all?) canids. So they don't see color in the red end of the spectrum, but do see farther into the blue UV end of the spectrum than we do. They still see red and green things and light, but not as red or green. It is thought that those colors appear more greyish to them.

You have fallen into the classic trap of the colorblind myth. People think that when animals are colorblind, that either they don't see color or don't see anything related to a specific color. Various vendors over the years have claimed using video documentation that an animal could not see their light because the animal didn't react to the light. As I recall, Laser Genetics did this with their green light. Another red light vendor did this as well. They would light up an animal and if it didn't run, they would proclaim that they could not see the light. That just wasn't factual. Here, they assumed that a lack of reaction meant a lack of capability. I can say that if they have been shot at by hunters with red lights or green lights previously, if they see the same color light, they will run.

One benefit of a red light, however, is that it does not have the throw or shine of a white light of on the same power. You are much less apt to over-illuminate your walk with a red light than a white light.

The intensity of the light sometimes does matter. Experimenting with hogs, I found that the same process for using a white light is also appropriate for using a red light. You hit them straight on with the hotspot of your beam, but instead lower the beam down on them slowly, illuminating them with the splash of the light first and not dropping the hotspot on them if you can help it.

It has also been my experience that raccoons, deer, hogs, and coyotes see red lasers just fine.

With all that said, running a red led light on a low setting may be your best non-NV option for navigation aid. With the power down, you aren't emitting a bright light and the throw will be greatly reduced. Bear in mind that you may only see it for 5 feet, but they will see it much farther because they see better at night than we do.

You might find this read to be of value to you.
Deer:
https://deerassociation.com/hunters-guide-deer-vision/
https://www.themeateater.com/wired-to-hu...d-movement

Coyote:
https://outriggeroutdoors.com/blogs/nigh...-must-have

Pig:
https://www.pig333.com/articles/pig-visi...dling_981/
https://howitsee.com/what-colors-do-pigs-see/

[CJW]

Great read DNS

[Klem]

As I understand it, red light is favored for navigation because it does not destroy a person's night vision. Like the old WWII night fighter pilots waiting in the Ready room to scramble with only red lights permitted. This, given it takes about 15-20 min to fully transfer from day cones to night rods - which is also no coincidence with the time it takes to go from day to night every day. I use a red headtorch when fussing around at night if I can, so when you switch it off to shoot your night vision is still operating at close to 100% and you don't have to wait.

As for using red filters on a white spotlight, my experience is that roos (kangaroos) can see it, but don't seem as spooked as a bright white light. Then again, they can hear you and maybe smell you, especially if you are using a vehicle. While you are shining a red light thinking you have not been seen they knew you were there 10 minutes ago, but have decided to tolerate your use of the same land as long as they don't think you are concentrating on them. If you walk past an owl at night it's happy to sit watching you but the moment it realizes you're paying attention to it (maybe you've stopped and are looking straight at it), it starts agitating and/or takes off. Crows are the same in daylight - happy to let you do your thing 300M away, but the moment you change behavior and start concentrating on them, like take a gun or long stick out the back, they are off. You take a shot or sweep a spotlight around a paddock and all the previously shot-at animals a kilometer away know there is danger about that evening. What I am saying is that I think it is more than just the color of your lights.

One more thing, shining a bright white light about at animals can suddenly make them freeze and look at you for long enough to take the shot if you are working in teams and ready. The lesser lumens of a red light, or IR torch that leaks into the visual spectrum does not do this. I've been on shoots where bright white light is what is needed to see eyes at a distance, whereas otherwise you wouldn't know the animal was there. So you are using your presence to encourage the animal to self-reveal. Some foxes seem less interested in stopping and looking back at you than getting out of there. I have heard some people say that through previous close shaves the smarter animals know not to look at the light - Maybe, but for sure they know that vehicles, humans and lights come with gunfire, and it all represents danger.

[tdbru]

Thank you DNS, very educational. ok, blue jean or blue anything is out.

I didn't read anything definitive, though, on blaze orange. It appears that it is indistinguishable from red or green, but the text seemed to me to imply that it is still visible. Perhaps next deer hunt I should do without the blaze orange and see what happens.

Looks like camo patterns to break up outlines are still critical.

So I was misinformed. Deer, coyotes, and pigs do have cones in their retinas. just not the biochemistry in them to identify the reds/oranges wavelengths. interesting.

So, a deer may not see my red head light as red, but likely sees some kind of light nonetheless. hmmm.... Getting to a hunting spot before dawn and not being detected while on the way just got a lot tougher it seems........

thanks again DNS.
-tdbru