Charge Difference between Lapua and Hornady brass.

[StoneHendge]

My Lapua brass is toast after 12-13x and I'm looking at a 2 day match. I've been using Shooters World Precision in Lapua brass with a 123 grain Scenar and my powder supply is also very low. I do have some Hornady brass to switch over too and really need to conserve the powder

Question for those who have gone between the two types of brass holding everything else the same: what was your powder differential?

I do have my own guess, opinion, etc. but am interested in real world experience.

Buying new Lapua brass isn't an option even if it could be found (need to fireform, etc.)

[Turtle65]

Sounds to me you already know the answer. When you change brass you will need to work up a new load, sorry.

[StoneHendge]

Sounds to me you already know the answer. When you change brass you will need to work up a new load, sorry.

So you don't have any real world experience. Thanks.

[myrifle]

My Lapua brass is toast after 12-13x and I'm looking at a 2 day match. I've been using Shooters World Precision in Lapua brass with a 123 grain Scenar and my powder supply is also very low. I do have some Hornady brass to switch over too and really need to conserve the powder

Question for those who have gone between the two types of brass holding everything else the same: what was your powder differential?

I do have my own guess, opinion, etc. but am interested in real world experience.

Buying new Lapua brass isn't an option even if it could be found (need to fireform, etc.)

With my starline, ppu and hornady brass.

Ppu averages .4 tenths less then starline
Hornady averages 4 tenths less then starline.

[grendelnubi]

For me;

Hornady fired brass holds 36.1 grains of H20 @1.517"
Lupua fired brass holds 36.3 grains of H20 at 1.508 inches
Starline holds 36.3 grains of H20 @ 1.51 inches.

To address your question in a real world example, I have a 123 SST, ARC load I switched from Hornady to Starline brass and had to increase the load by .2 grains to achieve the same velocity. I was really surprised at this.

On the flip side, I had a hot BLC load I developed using Starline brass and somehow got a Hornady brass mixed up and when fired, the primer was cratered pretty bad. I was not running my chrono at the time but wish I was just to see what the velocity difference was.

[jasper2408]

What velocity are you wanting to hit? I have the ladder graph using Hornady 9x fired brass trimmed to 1.510" that I did back when we were first talking about using Precision in the Grendel if you think it would help you. The only thing is I stopped at 27.9gr because I had a primer with a large black ring around it so I quit the ladder at that point. I think that the primer pocket was wore out and not the load doing it. I did the ladder with my Howa 20".

[Dt219]

With my starline, ppu and hornady brass.

Ppu averages .4 tenths less then starline
Hornady averages 4 tenths less then starline.

So starline has more case capacity than hornady, am I reading that right ? I thought starline had less

[Dt219]

I have a box of lapua you can use, all I ask is you replace them when you run across them ?

[StoneHendge]

Thanks Jasper, but my JP chamber is very tight and I usually end up with quite a bit lower charge weight than others. With that said, I'm at 28.5 gr in Lapua brass (I use a drop tube). I think I'm just off max. I'll note that my primer pockets are fine. I've been getting split necks. I've had no issues with neck tension or accuracy - I'm just getting splits after the bullet releases. Just makes for a dirtier neck area of the chamber.

Thanks Dt but I need 240 rounds for this match! My barrels nearing 5k so I don't really want to invest that much in brass for it. I hope it lasts forever, but if it doesn't I'm probably going in a different direction with the rifle depending on where the market is.

One thing I guess I should have mentioned is that I think flash hole size may have as big of an impact as case capacity. It's certainly an added variable.

[Zeneffect]

I said the same thing. I'm willing to contribute a new box of 100 to put it up to the 200 round mark. I have another 100 that is fired but annealed, however I use those for my own matches.. or used to. We will see Saturday how my starline loads do, I might make the switch for the rest of the year.

[Zeneffect]

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i...nt?Tk=DFBR

Lapua brass in stock as of posting.

[Turtle65]

What works for me won't necessarily work for you. My experience is not with Grendel but with .308 (Winchester and Federal). When I got into Grendel I went whole hog and got 2k pieces of Hornady brass. What I did do and had to do for my own peace of mind was to work up all new load data for the two different cases. Maybe not start at the beginning but perhaps a grain less and go from there. That may not be what you want to hear, but that is my opinion from my experience. You are clearly not a rookie reloader hence my reply about you knowing what you SHOULD do, not what you want to do. Didn't mean to offend you.

[StoneHendge]

No worries Turtle - I was just trying to keep the thread on track. My hope is to find an area and then poke around slightly above and below.

In the meantime I ran over to Bruno's and picked up a box of 100 gr Scenars, which have always intrigued me. I have a decent stash of both Benchmark and H322 and will be trying Benchmark first and see what I get in the 2700s out of my 22". Like the 108s, they are a lighter alloy and look very similar to the 123s with a lot of bearing surface for the weight. Models 10% more wind drift than my 123 load at 700 yards (match maximum), but much flatter. I'll start a new thread with results.

But in the meantime, let's leave this question open!

[Zeneffect]

If you annealed the brass now, how many more reloads you think the old lapua has left in it (realistically)

[StoneHendge]

If you annealed the brass now, how many more reloads you think the old lapua has left in it (realistically)

Lol. I'll save my sarcastic annealing reply and say its a moot point - I only have about 165 left of the original 300 - and 100 are already loaded for the match at the end of the month. I'm guessing 20-30 of those will crack.

[SCJim]

If you annealed the brass now, how many more reloads you think the old lapua has left in it (realistically)

Since I began annealing about 12 years ago using a plumbers torch and a drill and socket I have never lost a piece of brass due to neck splits. I have 90 something.308 Lapua Palma brass with close to 30 loadings on them that were always flame annealed still sitting in my case storage. The few that are missing were misplaced through the years, a couple may have developed loose primer pockets. I think that is why I retired them. Not bad for brass that was bought when Obama was President and shot a couple of dozen long range matches. The way annealing works is that it realigns the crystalline structure of the brass regardless of how much work hardening has occurred. You can take brass that has been resized 10 times, mix it with brass that has been resized twice, anneal both and the brass hardness will equal out as long as the time and temperature of the heat was the same or close to the same on all pieces.

EDIT -In regard to the OP, no clue here. All I have ever used in the Grendel is Starline and the highest number of firings is 9 on the stuff I own. Rims and necks tend to get beat to crap on my gas guns. I am still working on the art of reloading and tuning for AR's

[lazyengineer]

For me;

Hornady fired brass holds 36.1 grains of H20 @1.517"
Lupua fired brass holds 36.3 grains of H20 at 1.508 inches
Starline holds 36.3 grains of H20 @ 1.51 inches.
.

Thank you very much for this excellent data. Traditionally Hornady brass tends to be more normal "US Spec" thickness and case capacity in most calibers I've looked at, while Lapua tends to be much more "European spec" of notably heavier brass, and so notably smaller case capacity. This is particuarly true I've seen in 6.5 CM. To see that it's the revers here, in 6.5 Grendel, is unexpected and good to know.

Just MHO, but I personally consider Hornady the base-line benchmark of 6.5 Grendel brass. It runs well, never seems to Kaboom fail, and is also one of the most common. I also tend to view Hornady as the manufactuer who seems to take 6.5Grendel the most seriously.

[LRRPF52]

Since I began annealing about 12 years ago using a plumbers torch and a drill and socket I have never lost a piece of brass due to neck splits. I have 90 something.308 Lapua Palma brass with close to 30 loadings on them that were always flame annealed still sitting in my case storage. The few that are missing were misplaced through the years, a couple may have developed loose primer pockets. I think that is why I retired them. Not bad for brass that was bought when Obama was President and shot a couple of dozen long range matches. The way annealing works is that it realigns the crystalline structure of the brass regardless of how much work hardening has occurred. You can take brass that has been resized 10 times, mix it with brass that has been resized twice, anneal both and the brass hardness will equal out as long as the time and temperature of the heat was the same or close to the same on all pieces.

EDIT -In regard to the OP, no clue here. All I have ever used in the Grendel is Starline and the highest number of firings is 9 on the stuff I own. Rims and necks tend to get beat to crap on my gas guns. I am still working on the art of reloading and tuning for AR's

Have you de-edged, blended, and polished your feed ramps? Any work done to your ejector, bolt face, and extractors?

One thing with the AR-15 is that during ejection, the force of the ejector pushes the brass out as it’s passing through the barrel extension teeth, and you can get those vampire-like nicks on the neck. That’s not good for neck life.

You can carefully polish those teeth edges in that clock position in the extension, as well as reducing the ejector spring length to slow down the rate at which the spent case departs from the bore axis as it clears the extension.

[SCJim]

Have you de-edged, blended, and polished your feed ramps? Any work done to your ejector, bolt face, and extractors?

One thing with the AR-15 is that during ejection, the force of the ejector pushes the brass out as it’s passing through the barrel extension teeth, and you can get those vampire-like nicks on the neck. That’s not good for neck life.

You can carefully polish those teeth edges in that clock position in the extension, as well as reducing the ejector spring length to slow down the rate at which the spent case departs from the bore axis as it clears the extension.

I have done none of those but you can bet I will be watching videos and learning how this week

I have very limited experience with gas guns. I have just in the last few months decided to start competing with them. 75% of my experience is with CF bolt , 20% Rimfire, and maybe 5 % with AR's. I do appreciate any and all tips you and others here can provide.

[Dt219]

I would also like to see a video on polishing up the extension teeth. If there is one please post a link