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Hello everyone. Been shooting Grendel about a year at this point. Started reloading it recently (nearly finished with load development). I started shooting Grendel because of matches with longer engagements, as in 300+yd targets and 5.56 just wasn't getting the job done as well as I would have liked.
My rifle background is mostly 7.62NATO/.308 with 5.56 being added in over the last few years. Carried a M14 when I was USN and it formed my basis for what a proper rifle should be. Obviously, I have seen the light! The compactness of Grendel with comparable performance to .308 has me re-evaluating every rifle I now own.
Looking into maybe getting a Grendel bolt gun for local club benchrest matches. At 600M, this seems like a sweet spot for Grendel and makes a .308-sized load (e.g. 6mm CM) unnecessary. Any experience someone can share on that front would be much appreciated.
Thanks for having me. I look forward to learning from you all.
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Welcome to the 6.5 forum, I am a newb myself.
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Welcome to the Horde from just down da bayou! I agree with ya, the more I shot my Grendels, the more I likem. Tell us a lil bit about yours, what are the specs?
peak98
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Welcome to the Horde from Ohio.
Chuck S.
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Welcome to the forum WmGardner and thank you for your service! I havent shot 600 yard competition and I really havent run the numbers to see what weight cartridge will be the most efficient. The 107-108 class of bullets have of little higher velocity with shorter time of flight but a have lower BC than 120-123 grain or 129-130 grain bullets. Making the proper wind adjustment will usually be the determining factor. The Laupa 108 or 123 grain Scenar get very good reviews even though pricey. The 130 grain Berger bullet used in Federal Gold Medal Match ammo might be another top performer. At 600 yards the Sierra 120 grain Match King might shoot as well as the 107 or 123 grain TMK or SMK.
I think youll need to just see what your rifle likes.
Here is a link to the 6.5 Grendel Custom Search feature.
https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=0163689474...cu1o&hl=en
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WG:
Welcome!
A Grendel is a low velocity cartridge in todays terms. You ought to be able to match a 168 Match King .308 load at 600 if you use a 123 Match King or similar match bullet at about 2650 or so. At least in terms of your having to dope winds.
A 6mm CM, BR, PRC, etc will outperform a Grendel at 600. Same with any of the 6.5 cartridges that take more powder. Higher velocities, bullets with higher BC's. That assumes the rifles and shooters are equal. Less recoil with the 6mm's but poor barrel life. Your Grendel ought to go real well to 5 or 6K rounds. No way one of the 6mm's and slightly less of the bigger 6.5 cartridges.
Problem is the 6mms are really single use in these terms. Great for punching holes in paper and hitting steel but thats about it. Your Grendel will do a whole lot more, and do them better, but dealing with winds at long distances isn't one of them. A great universal cartridge for an AR-15 though. It fits almost any need which is really remarkable.
LR-55
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Welcome to the clan, WG, from the great nation of Texas!
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Welcome to the horde from Wisconsin .
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Thanks for the advice LR1955! I was chatting with a buddy today who shoots benchrest with the group in question. He basically said the same as you, the winner is always shooting either 6 Dasher or 6BR. I might just go that route I guess, though maybe for starting out, I won't care so much if I'm not at the top of the leaderboard and will have a lower cost of entry. I'm honestly not sure I really want yet another caliber to deal with anyway.
Decisions, decisions...
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peak98 Wrote:Welcome to the Horde from just down da bayou! I agree with ya, the more I shot my Grendels, the more I likem. Tell us a lil bit about yours, what are the specs?
peak98
It's a gas gun. V-Seven lower, Odin Works upper with a heavy contour 18" barrel. Geissele Tricon trigger. Magpul UBR stock. Primary Arms PLx 1-8X (Griffin reticle) for glass in a Spuhr mount and a red dot attached to the mount at maybe 2:00ish.
Wasn't overly impressed with accuracy when shooting factory loads. 2MOA to 1.25MOA, depending on the load (PPU, Federal GMM 130gr, & Hornady 123gr ELD). Not bad for an AR, but was really hoping for better from a Grendel gun. Have been working on hand loads over the past few weeks and we have 2 different Lapua bullet loads (different powders, same bullet) consistently grouping well below 1MOA at 100yds. Next step is to load up these two recipes and start testing them at distance.
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WmGardner Wrote:Thanks for the advice LR1955! I was chatting with a buddy today who shoots benchrest with the group in question. He basically said the same as you, the winner is always shooting either 6 Dasher or 6BR. I might just go that route I guess, though maybe for starting out, I won't care so much if I'm not at the top of the leaderboard and will have a lower cost of entry. I'm honestly not sure I really want yet another caliber to deal with anyway.
Decisions, decisions...
WG:
If you want a super 6mm cartridge for BR shooting and don't think you want to go whole hog into that very technical and expensive activity, just stick with a 6 Bench Rest. Proven cartridge, no need to alter brass, and easy to load for. Have heard all sorts of horror stories about the 6 Dasher and am not sure anyone really gained anything from it over a standard 6 BR but thats how competitive shooting goes. I have a prone rifle in 6 BR and that cartridge has never failed me. But -- it is good for punching holes in paper and totally uninteresting for anything else -- to me.
Not surprised you had problems with accuracy shooting what is basically a VLD. If you went with the Lapua 108 or 123 you made a real good choice. They are super bullets for any rifle and not as picky about loads and seating depths as the more VLD types. Now you can realize the potential of a Grendel fired from a well made rifle. Way more versatile than a specialty cartridge like a 6 BR.
LR-55
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LR1955 Wrote:WG:
If you want a super 6mm cartridge for BR shooting and don't think you want to go whole hog into that very technical and expensive activity, just stick with a 6 Bench Rest. Proven cartridge, no need to alter brass, and easy to load for. Have heard all sorts of horror stories about the 6 Dasher and am not sure anyone really gained anything from it over a standard 6 BR but thats how competitive shooting goes. I have a prone rifle in 6 BR and that cartridge has never failed me. But -- it is good for punching holes in paper and totally uninteresting for anything else -- to me.
Not surprised you had problems with accuracy shooting what is basically a VLD. If you went with the Lapua 108 or 123 you made a real good choice. They are super bullets for any rifle and not as picky about loads and seating depths as the more VLD types. Now you can realize the potential of a Grendel fired from a well made rifle. Way more versatile than a specialty cartridge like a 6 BR.
LR-55
You hit the nail on the head with those Lapua bullets. We are seeing consistent sub MOA groups with the 123 Scenar using both Accurate 2520 and Accurate 2460.
I sort of decided last night that Im not going to dump a ton of cash into a 6mm rig for a match-type that I dont even know if Ill like. I think Im going to upgrade the glass on my old .308 chassis gun and work up some custom loads. Until I am sure I like the match, I think good for a .308 will be good enough for now.
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VASCAR2 Wrote:Welcome to the forum WmGardner and thank you for your service! I havent shot 600 yard competition and I really havent run the numbers to see what weight cartridge will be the most efficient. The 107-108 class of bullets have of little higher velocity with shorter time of flight but a have lower BC than 120-123 grain or 129-130 grain bullets. Making the proper wind adjustment will usually be the determining factor. The Laupa 108 or 123 grain Scenar get very good reviews even though pricey. The 130 grain Berger bullet used in Federal Gold Medal Match ammo might be another top performer. At 600 yards the Sierra 120 grain Match King might shoot as well as the 107 or 123 grain TMK or SMK.
I think youll need to just see what your rifle likes.
Here is a link to the 6.5 Grendel Custom Search feature.
https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=0163689474...cu1o&hl=en
Thanks for the advice! In our testing we saw good results from the SMK I had on hand. Averaged at 1 1/8 - 1 1/4 groups at 100yds with my most successful loads. The Scenar 108 are performing as well or better than the 123SMK and the 123 Scenar (actually 123.4gr) are performing significantly better than either of those.
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Wm,
Welcome.
A couple of thoughts. You won't be competitive in long range BR (600 - 1,000M) with this calibre - it is too slow. All other things being equal the 6BR and Dashers will win at 600M and larger calibres at K. If the wind blows at all, your results will be even lower. Grendel was designed for short to intermediate range and specifically for an AR. Take it outside those parameters and it becomes its own handicap.
No offence but your current settup is probably incapable of 0.7MOA repeatable. No amount of ammo tinkering will shrink groups less than what the barrel is capable of. Popular recommendations for Olympic-grade barrels for the results you want are Krieger, Lilja and Bartlein - nothing else. If best groups at 600M is the goal I would upgrade the scope too. 2.5-25x50 is a good compromise range for hunting and target shooting with a 10x zoom ratio.
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