Flash hiders/muzzle devices affect on accuracy?

[fmyellowj]

Hello all. As sort of a noob to precision shooting and reloading in general, I was wondering what affect the style of muzzle device has on accuracy. On my every day duty Grendel, a 18" Faxon with a Vortex Diamondback, I have a Surefire Warcomp on which has served me pretty well for recoil control. However, I recently ordered a Lilja barrel I plan on upgrading to once I trash the Faxon barrel, and I wouldn't want to waste it's accuracy potential on a relatively heavy muzzle device when a lighter flash hider could suffice. Is there any discernable difference in accuracy between styles of muzzle devices, or am I just splitting hairs?

Thanks

[StoneHendge]

A muzzle device will not affect a rifle's accuracy (unless it's a cheap made in china piece of crap). It can affect your accuracy, however, with a good recoil reducing brake reducing recoil anticipation that might result in movement of your body and hence the rifle between breaking the trigger and the bullet exiting the barrel. For field shooting, a muzzle device that limits barrel movement after the bullet exits will also allow you to better spot your own shots and allow for you to get back on target faster and make quicker adjustments and faster follow up shots (such as adjusting for a bad wind call wind or a bad dope). I won't contribute to what will evolve into what everyone's favorite device is and why

[Klem]

Yellow,

You are not splitting hairs...Muzzle devices can help or hinder both precision and accuracy. It all depends on a few things; what gun it is going on, the type of shooting, bullet and how it is designed. With a Lilja you will be able to see results with and without the device.

I did a test a while back with a Lilja barrel; brake on and off. 4rd groups at 100 bench rested - 2 bullets tested. Results are that the brake helps.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]18118[/ATTACH]

That said, I bought a 6.5 cheap-and-cheerful (Chinese?) brake for a 6.5*47 bolt gun recently and it definitely made things worse. So I figure it depends on a few things. Only way to be sure is to try it on and off when you get it to justify having it on.

[grayfox]

^^ what they said.
I personally have tried out several, barrels, MB's etc, and for me a good one helps yes, period.
Now as to what is good or what works, much like belly buttons everyone has an opinion.

For cost-reasonable and well-made and effective (IMO of course), the VG 6 gamma, 6.5 mm is my go-to.
I've had more expensive (APA lil B*trd et al),and cheaper, heavier and lighter, settled on these pretty much across the board.
If you go for any MB however just be sure to realize there is a tradeoff of louder report, and sometimes "prop-wash" muzzle blast.
I wear hearing pro all the time anyway, and as for prop-wash, got rid of those guys. The VG6 is where I'm at.

edit to add: even on my lilja barrel, definitely helps me. the barrel is totally gtg but I need the help

[fmyellowj]

Good points, StoneHendge. Before my Grendel I had a few 5.56 rifles with the standard A2 style bird cage on, didn't do much to keep the gun steady in prone and it did move my scope a bit when I would shoot for distance (Nothing exceptional, out to 300 yards or so at the most).

Thanks for the response Klem, that's a handy data table you posted. If you don't mind me asking, what brake did you go with? I'm content sticking with the Warcomp, as it suppresses flash and tames recoil exceptionally, but I am open to any and all suggestions.

[jasper2408]

+1 on VG6. Either the gamma or the Epsilon. I like the Epsilon just a smidgen better but both are good.

[Happy2Shoot]

Hanging a weight on the end of your barrel has an effect on the harmonics of your barrel whip.

Will it change you point of impact? Most likely.

Will it change you group size? Most likely. Better or worse? 50/50 chance of either.

I wouldn't add or remove a muzzle device and not expect to rework my load. May just be seating depth, may be charge weight.

[Klem]

Thanks for the response Klem, that's a handy data table you posted. If you don't mind me asking, what brake did you go with?.

Yellow,

The LMD by Precision Firearms
https://www.precisionfirearms.com/m8/1%2...meter.html

The offset anti-rotational holes work. With AR's the handguards tend to be circular which doesn't help when the bullet is wanting to oppose the right-hand twist of the barrel's rifling. Tends to jerk the gun anti-clockwise.

Lots of good muzzle devices out there and everyone has their favourite. The LMD is respected but there may be better. There are also a few brake comparison reviews out there for the searching.

Tell you the truth, a suppressor does everything a muzzle device will do and more.

[biodsl]

Yellow,

The LMD by Precision Firearms
https://www.precisionfirearms.com/m8/1%2...meter.html...
Lots of good muzzle devices out there and everyone has their favourite. The LMD is respected but there may be better. There are also a few brake comparison reviews out there for the searching.

I've been using the LMD for the last few years and am happy with it. I don't have much to compare it to, though. I bought it because Mark was an early supporter of the Grendel and the LMD large finished near the top in this The Truth about Guns comparison
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/308-mu...rake-test/

[BowChamp]

This is what worked great on a Lilja barrel I've been shooting. It really tames the rifle and, to me, doesn't seem to direct a lot of blast toward the shooter.


https://www.larue.com/products/larue-tra...e-adapter/

[Bill2336]

Ever since I bought a suppressor a little over a year ago I shoot my rifles almost exclusively suppressed and my only worry about what muzzle device to run is whether I need a device compatible with my suppressor to be threaded 1/2 X 28 or 5/8 x 24. For a bit when I first got the suppressor I only had a compatible device for my 20" Grendel and it was pretty jarring to switch from shooting the Grendel to my VG6 equipped 18" 5.56 rifle. I felt like I was a lot more accurate with the suppressed Grendel.

[Happy2Shoot]

This looks like a solid option.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ergyzPBVTWc

Never seen a barrel tuner and muzzle brake combined.

I may have to try this.

[SDW]

+1 on VG6. Either the gamma or the Epsilon. I like the Epsilon just a smidgen better but both are good.

That's good to hear. I just have a sixfivearms flash hider on my 20" precision upper. But I bought a Gamma to try on it some time. My Gamma is the 300BO version. I like that it's not super huge and I can, if I want, run my CAGE on it if the noise gets too obnoxious. That's actually while I am not running the brake; I don't want or need the extra noise coming back at me.

[jasper2408]

That's good to hear. I just have a sixfivearms flash hider on my 20" precision upper. But I bought a Gamma to try on it some time. My Gamma is the 300BO version. I like that it's not super huge and I can, if I want, run my CAGE on it if the noise gets too obnoxious. That's actually while I am not running the brake; I don't want or need the extra noise coming back at me.

I use the Gamma and the Epsilon on my 5.56 uppers. I use the VG6 Lambda on my 6.5 stuff. I did run a Gamma on my 6.5 Grendel AR15 upper for a while though.

Edit: I switched to the Lambda so that I could take them off easily to clean.

[Oso Polaris]

Hands down best muzzle devise is a Suppressor.... reduces noise, recoil, flash.

As far as flash hiders, JP Enterprise makes an incredible flashhider. If you are night hunting and don't have a suppressor and don't want to get blinded by you flash then this is what you want . Even after seeing the YouTube review video, I would not have believed it until I saw it in action. No fireball, only the slightest hint of blue flames playing along the 3 tines like St. Elmo's fire.
https://www.jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPFH-762L

PF's muzzle break is very nice. Does its job without directing any blast back at shooter.... low flinch factor compared to many others.

[PVBoom]

+1 on the VG6 Gamma here. It's my goto MD.

[LRRPF52]

Not only can the muzzle device affect POI and repeatability, but torque on that device can worsen or improve groups as well.

It all comes down to resonant harmonics, which propagate through the barrel and anything attached to it.

The more consistent the harmonic resonance is and the more dampening you get from the muzzle device, the better they tend to contribute to precision.

Asymmetric mass devices tend to have the most noticeable effect on POI shift and group sizes.

Bore concentricity, shoulder squareness, and thread concentricity to the bore also play a role in this equation.

You have to determine how much you’re willing to spend chasing the extreme here, shaving off fractions of an inch for the competitor vs hitting center of vital zone for the hunter.

As usual with any discussion on accuracy and precision, start with the barrel, who turned, chambered, threaded, and crowned it and go from there.

Since you’re starting with a Lilja barrel, that’s a big step in the right direction.

Next ask yourself what you’re using the rifle for.

If lightweight is a priority, a basic symmetric flash hider like the PF Nox is great.

Biggest consideration with brakes is whether you really want the minimal impact on sight picture during the shot, and are willing to exchange the typical negative muzzle blast effects to shooter’s face/ears and any bystanders for that.

With 6.5 Grendel, there isn’t too much muzzle climb and sight picture dance like on a .308 Win or larger, so I generally don’t use brakes on mine.

I think my only brake is the LaRue TranQuilo, and it works well, but doesn’t have the typical muzzle blast of a gilled brake.

That PF MLD actually works too when countering torque.

I personally enjoy shooting suppressed more than with Flash Hiders or Brakes, since there is just a whispered cough versus muzzle blast.

[monkeybutler]

My two guidelines are

1) Don't cheap it i.e., pay more for a better assurance of machining quality.
2) Lightly torque it and use Rocksett or similar.

[turk1961]

Anyone had any experience with the EC Tuner Brake?

[lazyengineer]

V6 Gamma (.300 BO version) is what I like to run. As to accuracy effect - sometimes. On an M1D sniper rifle, the cool 3 prong flash hider hurts accuracy. On a 5.56, it rarely really matters that much. On a .300Win Mag, I bet it does, hence tunable BOSS. In 6.5 Grendel, I can't say. It's a mild round so less whip than many.