Forward Assist and Kyle Rittenhouse vidicated

[LR1955]

What if I told you the standard AR-15 type charging handle is a "side charger" when used with the left hand by professionals. Also, a reciprocating charging handle attached to the bolt is a dangerous liability in a combat scenario. Ever fire a few magazines around a left corner wall, bushes, chest full of gear and straps, and so on. I'm not sure who invented the hate for the forward assist, but I never heard one complaint the entire time I was 0311. As a civilian at the range, or hunting deer I doubt it matters either way.

HTS:

You got it.

However I never got the technique down for keeping the charging handle itself from catching on stuff. Not as bad as a side charger by any means but still a PITA sometimes.

You forgot the amount of crap that can get into a bolt if there is no dust cover. Hard to believe sometimes.

I had a couple of side chargers whose side charger sheared off under use. The rifle functioned but removing the stub was something my gunsmith cursed about for weeks. My first experience with shearing the side charger was with a CSS Match Rifle. The first Grendel I owned. The handle sheared in a couple hundred rounds. I was able to remove the stub and replaced it with another handle. That one went maybe two hundred rounds before shearing. My gunsmith made a handle out of tool steel I think, and it held up for about 1K rounds then sheared off too. I think I went through three or four on different uppers but have one today that has held up a long time. Longer is not better with side charging handles.

Never got caught up with the arguing over a forward assist. For a combat rifle or carbine, self defense or even hunting, having one is way better than not having one and I never noticed the weight or it sticking out or anything else about it other than if I needed it, it worked as designed.

LR55

[BluntForceTrauma]

I'm not sure who invented the hate for the forward assist....

It was Gene Stoner, himself.

Stoner discusses the forward assist (he calls it "a bolt-closure device") in THIS VIDEO starting at 20:27. In YouTube, video is titled "The Eugene Stoner Tapes – Part 2: The M16 in Vietnam and Comments on the M16A2."

Stoner uses the forward assist with a smirk on his face in THIS VIDEO starting at 4:37. In YouTube, video is titled "The Eugene Stoner Tapes – Part 6: Range Day at ARES."

Then, again, he hated the three-round burst mechanism: "Just, exactly, the wrong number of rounds."

[BluntForceTrauma]

The forward assist saved Kyle Rittenhouse's life.

If I was gonna play Devil's Advocate — where's StanC when you need him? — I'd say, yes, the forward assist saved Kyle Rittenhouse's life.

However, racking the charging handle would also have chambered a round and, equally, have saved his life.

In his testimony, Kyle looked and saw that his bolt was open "about an inch." Bent round caused that?

[montana]

If I was gonna play Devil's Advocate — where's StanC when you need him? — I'd say, yes, the forward assist saved Kyle Rittenhouse's life.

However, racking the charging handle would also have chambered a round and, equally, have saved his life.

In his testimony, Kyle looked and saw that his bolt was open "about an inch." Bent round caused that?

Stoner did not agree with the forward assist or as he liked to call it the wheeler button, which made me laugh. I can only imagine the frustration he endured dealing with government bureaucracies and individual personalities in the weapons procurement process.. That said, I do prefer to have a FA and I sure don't consider it a liability.. I doubt Rittenhouse would have been able to have racked the charging handle chambering a new round in the dire situation and body position he was in as fast as he could hit the FA. Pure conjecture on my part, but this is a 17 year old kid with little training we are talking about..Sometimes the stars align and even the bureaucrats and young kids can get it right...

[Double Naught Spy]

If I was gonna play Devil's Advocate — where's StanC when you need him? — I'd say, yes, the forward assist saved Kyle Rittenhouse's life.

However, racking the charging handle would also have chambered a round and, equally, have saved his life.

In his testimony, Kyle looked and saw that his bolt was open "about an inch." Bent round caused that?

I think y'all banned him, LOL.

Charging the gun with the charging handle might have saved Rittenhouse's life as well. Or, it might have compounded the problem or introduced a new malfunction depending on what the problem truly was and how well he did the charge.

I haven't seen in the video where Rittenhouse used the forward assist. If the bolt was open an inch, then I would guess that he pounded on it several times? If so, then he certainly would have had time to try charging it as you suggest.

[LR1955]

If I was gonna play Devil's Advocate — where's StanC when you need him? — I'd say, yes, the forward assist saved Kyle Rittenhouse's life.

However, racking the charging handle would also have chambered a round and, equally, have saved his life.

In his testimony, Kyle looked and saw that his bolt was open "about an inch." Bent round caused that?

BFT:

Given Stan's anti gun track record here, the technical issues of the forward assist would probably not be mentioned.

Bolt open an inch? Maybe as he was getting stomped by the psychos he or something pulled the charging handle back just out of battery. If he was using a side charger, then it would be more likely in my opinion.

I don't see how a round of ammo can get bent inside the rifle so probably not a bent round.

I have shot a bunch of pretty badly bent rounds of ammo out of AR's though. No way they would feed from a magazine, so I threw them into the chamber and let the bolt go. I guess the bolt unbent them or maybe they were not that bad but every one of them fired.

Don't try that at home...........

LR-55

[BluntForceTrauma]

I haven't seen in the video where Rittenhouse used the forward assist.

I haven't viewed the footage of the actual incident in detail, either, but Kyle's testimony to Tucker Carlson about his use of the FA is at 11:10 in THIS VIDEO, which YouTube entitles "Kyle Rittenhouse Speaks to Tucker Carlson in First TV Interview."

[LR1955]

I haven't viewed the footage of the actual incident in detail, either, but Kyle's testimony to Tucker Carlson about his use of the FA is at 11:10 in THIS VIDEO, which YouTube entitles "Kyle Rittenhouse Speaks to Tucker Carlson in First TV Interview."

BFT:

Very hard to say. Could be the bolt was just fine and he imagined it. Could be that somehow the bolt came out of battery and he hit the forward assist. Under that sort of stress who knows? If the forward assist pushed the bolt back into battery, then obviously there wasn't any big deal with the round of ammo or the forward assist wouldn't have worked.

We went from the old SPORTS to Slap, Rack, Shoot. I will look first if the situation allows, because it is better to know why there is a malfunction before screwing with it and perhaps going through a routine that may not work.

Another thing about all of this at least from my perspective. I wouldn't go into that sort of situation without absolutely knowing the condition of my rifle and it would be loaded, in battery, on safe. And I would not go into it alone. Period. At least two others who are also 100 percent prepared to shoot to kill. A guy is either suicidal or really stupid to go into a mob of ultra-violent Marxist terrorists without a team of guys just as willing to defend themselves using deadly force.

LR-55

[grayfox]

All good points, especially about not trying this alone. Add that it’s a group who has trained together for this sort of scenario, you need to be able to trust what they will do.

[Klem]

If the discussion is shifting towards his actions on the day I tend to think he was an idiot. A teenager brings an assault rifle to a riot - I mean, come on. If they all brought pillows then there's a good chance there'd be a pillow fight.

As for his use of the FA without any evidence other than his word, heck he might not even know himself what happened in the chaos. Or he could be making it up to make himself seem more proficient to his new fans. Or he may have used it and not needed to. Just seems a coincidence that something we rarely use, he claims to have used in the one time he really needed to have his gun work. If all this is true, I'd be buying a lottery ticket.

He should have been doing his homework or down the beach trying to make friends.

[montana]

If the discussion is shifting towards his actions on the day I tend to think he was an idiot. A teenager brings an assault rifle to a riot - I mean, come on. If they all brought pillows then there's a good chance there'd be a pillow fight.

As for his use of the FA without any evidence other than his word, heck he might not even know himself what happened in the chaos. Or he could be making it up to make himself seem more proficient to his new fans. Or he may have used it and not needed to. Just seems a coincidence that something we rarely use, he claims to have used in the one time he really needed to have his gun work. If all this is true, I'd be buying a lottery ticket.

He should have been doing his homework or down the beach trying to make friends.

First of all Klem, he did not bring an assault rifle as assault rifles are heavily regulated and expensive. He legally brought a civilian semi auto rifle which has been in civilian's hands since the early 1960's.If they had brought pillows, they would have been beat senseless at best. As far as being an idiot, one has to understand the mindset of an idealistic 17 year old with a belief he was trying to do good, unlike the human garbage he was trying to protect his community from.. BLM and antifa are a communist, racist, evil organizations the left supports as their modern day brown shirts..Why do you think our giggling vice pres financially helped bale them out. This criminal act is being done in almost every leftist city in the US with the results we all knew would occur. Remember the summer of love remark from the Seattle mayor when a part of the city was taken over by these criminal groups? Talk about an idiot.. The real idiots are the supporters of these leaders and leftist in the justice system who allowed the lowest form of human waste in society to burn, loot, steal and assault with immunity after they ordered the police to stand down and not do their jobs. Ripping on an idealistic kid is anger misdirected, when all he was trying to do was good,whether it was a smart thing to do or not..It was business people of all races that were victimized that night and some how the focus was directed at a 17 year olds right to self defense, not the reason why a 17 year old felt the need to be there in the first place..Amazing....

Here is the video. Start at the 11:40 minute https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do7sbWaZstQ

[BluntForceTrauma]

Another video discussion of the incident and the issue of FAs on YouTube HERE: "Kyle Rittenhouse and the AR15 Forward Assist."

[Klem]

Come on Montana, are we going to get into the semantic debate of what is and what isn't an assault rifle? It's me you're talking to.

You carry a weapon and it tempts the use of it in appropriate and inappropriate situations.

[grayfox]

Klem, this is not semantics. The term "assault weapon" is clearly defined, and the AR15 is not. period.
It is a rifle, it is a weapon, it is not an assault weapon.
You carry a knife and it tempts the use of it in appropriate or inappropriate situations...? I do not see nor agree with that logic.

Tools do not tempt. Your own feelings tempt.
But if he had a right to carry, and a right to be there, end of story.
I'm waiting for the prosecution of all the law-breaking rioters that were there that night. But not holding my breath.

Too many times in Portland, in Seattle, in Minneapolis last year, when seconds counted, the police not only were minutes away, they were ordered to stand down. and rioting was rampant. Now the leftist/rioters have organized smash-and-grab mobs running scott-free. Wanna bet that they are being paid to loot? They ought to be assisted into jail... o wait, the leftist DA's will let them out on a no-bail policy!!! You want to protest temptations, protest that instead.

Kyle was found innocent of all charges, he was innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and no charges were proven, so he was innocent and is innocent.

I should think that any law-abiding person would respect that.

So his "motives" or what tempted him or etc, are frankly irrelevant.

Thank goodness for the FA, whatever he thought at that moment or however far out the bolt may have been or seemed.
I do believe some bad guys took notice -- if you bring a skateboard to a riot you could get over-ruled.

[LR1955]

Come on Montana, are we going to get into the semantic debate of what is and what isn't an assault rifle? It's me you're talking to.

You carry a weapon and it tempts the use of it in appropriate and inappropriate situations.

Klem:

I carry a weapon and am not tempted to use it.

Brush is getting a bit broad there.

LR-55

[StoneHendge]

Come on Montana, are we going to get into the semantic debate of what is and what isn't an assault rifle? It's me you're talking to.

You carry a weapon and it tempts the use of it in appropriate and inappropriate situations.

Yeah, the millions of Americans with CCW permits just walk around shooting people.

[montana]

Come on Montana, are we going to get into the semantic debate of what is and what isn't an assault rifle? It's me you're talking to.

You carry a weapon and it tempts the use of it in appropriate and inappropriate situations.

There is not much more I can add the others had not already answered other than Freud was right.
Projection, the mental process by which people attribute to others what is in their own minds. What is internal is seen as external.

I know exactly who I'm talking to.

[HKGuns]

I carry a weapon with me at all times and I've not once been tempted to use it. What a crock of shite. This is exactly why the left coast is so screwed up Elmer.

[Klem]

Keep those specious arguments coming.

"See you Mom, Dad, just going down to the riot with my 'sporting' rifle." "OK, son, have a good time playing sport."

[montana]

Keep those specious arguments coming.

"See you Mom, Dad, just going down to the riot with my 'sporting' rifle." "OK, son, have a good time playing sport."

Protecting lives and property is specious Klem?? Must be interesting living in that world you dwell in..