Please help me either buy, assemble or build a lightweight deer rifle

[6.5G Master]

After tons of research I have settled on the 6.5 Grendel as the ideal whitetail rife for my family to hunt with. I want to get one setup for smaller shooters and for shooting and hunting suppressed at all times (hence the light weight requirement). I'm not a huge guy but 13-13.5" LOP for me is about right but my wife and son will need 12-12.5" or maybe less. I'm trying to keep the gun + stock under $600 and will plan to use a fixed 6X scope so my total cost should be ~$1100.

What are my options for off the shelf guns that fix my descriptions? With hunting being the primary goal for this gun should I get a sporter barrel and save some weight on the front since there will be a can up there or is a 20" heavy barrel going to be more stable with can?

Seems a bit difficult to find existing rifles in stock that fit my description so if I need to assemble one, can I get it done within my budget?

THX!

[jbmarshtx]

I think that your best bet will be the Ruger American. There are a few howa mini barreled actions at brownells, and you could get a boyds or howa stock for those within your budget. Heck, I've got a boyds that I'm considering selling.

I don't shoot suppressed so I can't answer that, but the howa HB is not that 'heavy'. My rifle with DNZ mounts, vortex 2-10, and sling weighs 8.5#.

[A5BLASTER]

Get the suppressor ready cz 527 in grendel, you will take me later.

[6.5G Master]

Get the suppressor ready cz 527 in grendel, you will take me later.

I’ve got a cz 457 and 452 so I’m already a fan of the company but isn’t their 6.5G threaded rifle only a 16” barrel? Might not matter but I figure since this round is on the low end of the energy scale for deer I figured that should try and get as much barrel length as possible without having the can 2’ from the receiver.

[Lemonaid]

You did not state preference of bolt action or gas gun or even pistol gas gun. I like the Ruger American Predator--22 inch barrel. "I like it so much, I bought the company!" Well, not really but I do have three of them now.
A gas gun with adjustable length stock might be of use for multi-users of the same rifle. I think it's possible with your budget.

[6.5G Master]

You did not state preference of bolt action or gas gun or even pistol gas gun. I like the Ruger American Predator--22 inch barrel. "I like it so much, I bought the company!" Well, not really but I do have three of them now.
A gas gun with adjustable length stock might be of use for multi-users of the same rifle. I think it's possible with your budget.

Good point! I forgot to mention that I am looking for a bolt gun. I much prefer the simplicity and sound reduction of a suppressed bolt rifle.

[riuma]

I’ve got a cz 457 and 452 so I’m already a fan of the company but isn’t their 6.5G threaded rifle only a 16” barrel? Might not matter but I figure since this round is on the low end of the energy scale for deer I figured that should try and get as much barrel length as possible without having the can 2’ from the receiver.

I have the standard American and the Varmint. I have often wished the Varmint came with a 20" threaded pipe to keep the OAL reasonable. As it stands, the bloody rifle -accurate tho it may be- is pretty ungainly. Until I decide whether or not to lop five inches from the barrel, I have resolved myself to shooting the more svelte American unsuppressed for hunting. Deadly accurate and handles beautifully. Makes deer fall down and not get up -muley and whitetail both. ~Riuma

[MaineAR]

Ruger American Ranch comes threaded. You can get a compact stock from Ruger for the shorter LOP. Then moves the kids up to the standard stock as they grow. That’s the path I took with my son for his American Ranch. If you want more barrel length, the Predator is a good option as well and you can cut the barrel to your desired length. The Howa Mini Action is sweet too. My buddy has the 20” threaded HB model and it’s a shooter. Buying the barreled action and your desired stock is a good way to go as well with the Howa. Just be aware the mag and plastic “bottoms metal” is this guns weak point and should be upgraded. Your $600 limit on the gun alone may not be feasible with your requirements with off the shelf options, but you have options nonetheless. They’ll just require you to do the finishing touches.

[VASCAR2]

For hunting distance a 16” barrel with suppressor should get you enough velocity out to 300 yards with 120-125 grain bullets. If you use the 129 grain Nosler Accu Bond Long Range (ABLR) it expands down to 1300 FPS. I have the 24” Cz 527 American but I’d prefer a little shorter barrel but when I bought my Cz it was the only barrel offered at that time.

Howa sell a 6.5 Grendel with youth stock but they are difficult to find. You might get lucky and find a used youth stock for a Howa. I think a Howa 20” threaded heavy barrel is a good option and Brownell’s have an exclusive where they offer Howa barreled actions in 6.5 Grendel.

I just checked and Brownell’s has the 6.5 Grendel actions in stock, 20” heavy barrel and 22” sporter.


https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/re...13624.aspx

[A5BLASTER]

I’ve got a cz 457 and 452 so I’m already a fan of the company but isn’t their 6.5G threaded rifle only a 16” barrel? Might not matter but I figure since this round is on the low end of the energy scale for deer I figured that should try and get as much barrel length as possible without having the can 2’ from the receiver.

16binch with 120 gold dot or 129 ablr will give you all the killing power you need inside 300 yards.

[runner gunner]

I use a Howa with the heavy barrel and run a Griffin Sportsman 300 can on it. It's a LITTLE on the longish side but not terribly ungainly. It's deadly accurate with 120 grain Nosler Ballistic tips. I also have a built AR pistol with a 12.5" barrel that I run the same can on. It's my go to deer killer, with the SBA 4 adjustable brace it's very handy. Also very accurate with the 110 gr Controlled Chaos handloads I use. Hope you find what you're looking for.

[6.5G Master]

Looks like the 16.5” CZ can be had for $750 but I have read where there are (were?) issues with the bolt getting in the way of the scope…is that still an issue? Also, are there any mods needed to the CZ in order to bring it up to speed? For example it seems the howa needs that bottom metal mod to be setup right so the Howa is really going to be $150 more expensive than anything I find as I account for that mod.

[Oso Polaris]

Looks like the 16.5” CZ can be had for $750 but I have read where there are (were?) issues with the bolt getting in the way of the scope…is that still an issue? Also, are there any mods needed to the CZ in order to bring it up to speed? For example it seems the howa needs that bottom metal mod to be setup right so the Howa is really going to be $150 more expensive than anything I find as I account for that mod.

The CZ bolt handle /scope interference was resolved several years back. The factory handle is now longer to provided the necessary clearance around the typical scope. The only thing that you might contemplate is at some point upgrading the bolt knob to something like the Badger Ordanance's Mini-knob.

As to the Howa you are going to need to buy replacement bottom metal and then it may also require fitting into you stock (not a straight drop in). If you plan to use an aftermarket bottom metal that also incorporates an internal magazine, such as Oregunsmithing's model, then you may also want/need to do a bedding job. Regardless of which aftermarket stock you buy, they are inlet for the factory Howa plastic bottom trigger guard and the removable magazines, which is pretty wide. I found this opening to be much larger than what is needed for the replacement internal magazine, forcing me to do some backfilling around the magwell. This might not be essential, but I feel better knowing that everything is locked in place and no risk of it shaking loose or out of alignment.

[6.5G Master]

The CZ bolt handle /scope interference was resolved several years back. The factory handle is now longer to provided the necessary clearance around the typical scope. The only thing that you might contemplate is at some point upgrading the bolt knob to something like the Badger Ordanance's Mini-knob.

As to the Howa you are going to need to buy replacement bottom metal and then it may also require fitting into you stock (not a straight drop in). If you plan to use an aftermarket bottom metal that also incorporates an internal magazine, such as Oregunsmithing's model, then you may also want/need to do a bedding job. Regardless of which aftermarket stock you buy, they are inlet for the factory Howa plastic bottom trigger guard and the removable magazines, which is pretty wide. I found this opening to be much larger than what is needed for the replacement internal magazine, forcing me to do some backfilling around the magwell. This might not be essential, but I feel better knowing that everything is locked in place and no risk of it shaking loose or out of alignment.

So depending on how well the CZ stock fits me it’s close to a wash on price and weight to fix the bottom metal issue on a Howa vs a 16” CZ out of the box. I guess it then comes down to the 16 vs. 20” barrel. I should have said originally but I will not be handloading so I’m limited to factory ammo. Will that be a factor in getting either of the two to work well?

[VASCAR2]

I don’t think it will matter that you don’t hand load and will rely on factory hunting ammo. The biggest issue right now is finding factory hunting ammo. You could use Hornady Black 123 grain ELD-M or PPU 120 grain HP BT as they both have been used to take white tail deer. The federal 120 grain Fusion, 123 grain Hornady SST and Nosler 129 grain ABLR have a good track record in the 6.5 Grendel. Remington had a Barnes hunting load plus a couple other companies such as Alexander Arms, Precision Firearms produce 6.5 Grendel ammo.


I think the Howa or Cz should shoot into around 2 MOA or less with factory hunting ammo. My Cz 527 is Accurate but I had to relieve the stock and adjust the trigger to my liking. The Cz uses Cz specific scope rings but Dip Industries make a rail that accepts Weaver mounts. I bought the 25 MOA mount for my Cz 527 as I want enough elevation on my scope to shoot steel out to 1000 yards.

I think there might be more aftermarket options for the Howa than the Cz. I have no experience with the Ruger other than checking one out at a LGS. The Ruger accepts AR-15 magazines and has a threaded barrel.


https://www.diproductsinc.com/Products.aspx?CAT=4268

You might get on the email notification for ammo that comes back in stock. Here is an example of less known 6.5 Grendel hunting ammo. Pricey but might be worth it if you can’t find other ammo.

https://www.underwoodammo.com/rifle-ammo/65grendel

I found this 6.5 Grendel ammo in stock. You could always sell what you don’t need. I have no personal experience with this company Cosmo Ammo but have heard of Fort Scott Ammunition.


https://cosmosammostore.com/?product=6-5...-scot-50rd

[VASCAR2]

Here is a list of factory ammo from 2019. Just in case you start looking for ammo.

2019 Factory Ammo Updated List
6.5 Grendel 2019 Factory Ammo List

Alexander Arms
120gr Barnes TSX HPBT
120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip
123gr Lapua Scenar HPBT
129gr Hornady SST
130gr Swift Scirocco

Barnaul
100gr FMJ
110gr FMJ

Copper Creek
120gr Barnes TAC-TX
123gr ELD-M
130gr Berger VLD Hunting
130gr Berger Hybrid
130gr Hornady ELD-M
6.5 Grendel load development pack Stage I
6.5 Grendel load development pack Stage II

Defender Ammunition
107gr Tipped SMK


Federal
90gr TNT American Eagle
120gr Match American Eagle
120gr Fusion
130gr Berger OTM Gold Medal Match

Hendershot's
95gr Hornady V-MAX
100gr ELD-M
100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip
100gr Nosler Partition
100gr Sierra HP
100gr Barnes TAC-TX
100gr Barnes TTSX

107gr Sierra Matck King
107gr Sierra Tipped Match King

120gr TTSX
120gr TAC-TX
120gr Berger Match TGT
120gr Hornady ELD-M
120gr Hornady GMX
120gr Lapua Scenar-L
120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip

123gr Hornady ELD-M
123gr Nosler Custom Competition
123gr Hornady SST
125gr Nosler Partition

130gr Berger VLD Match Hunting
130gr Berger AR Hybrid Tactical
130gr Nosler Accubond

Hornady
123gr BTHP American Gunner (200rd box from Sportsman's Warehouse)
123gr SST Custom
123gr ELD-M Black

McCourt Munitions
120gr Berger

Night Ops
90gr TNT
95gr V-MAX
100gr Sierra JHP
100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip

Nosler New for 2019
90gr Varmageddon
123gr Custom Competition
129gr Accubond Long Range

Precision Firearms
100gr A-MAX
100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip
100gr Barnes TTSX
100gr Lapua Scenar HPBT
107gr Sierra Match King HPBT
108gr Lapua Scenar

120gr A-MAX
120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip
120gr Barnes TTSX
120gr Nosler E-Tip
120gr Lapua Scenar-L

123gr Sierra Match King HPBT
123gr Lapua Scenar HPBT

123gr Hornady AMAX
123gr Hornady SST
123gr Nosler Custom Competition
123gr Lapua Scenar

127gr Barnes LRX
129gr Nosler Accubond Long Range

130gr Berger VLD Hunting
130gr Berger VLD TGT

PPU/Prvi Partizan
110gr FMJBT
120gr HPBT

Underwood Ammo
105gr Match Solid Flash Tip
110gr Controlled Chaos

Reloads of Dallas (This is new manufactured ammo with new brass loaded on single stage press using a Sartorius to within .02gr.)
123gr A-MAX
123gr Scenar

Wolf
100gr FMJ (steel case)
120gr Performance

[Oso Polaris]

So depending on how well the CZ stock fits me it’s close to a wash on price and weight to fix the bottom metal issue on a Howa vs a 16” CZ out of the box. I guess it then comes down to the 16 vs. 20” barrel. I should have said originally but I will not be handloading so I’m limited to factory ammo. Will that be a factor in getting either of the two to work well?

Regardless of pricing, I my mind it still isn't a wash. My personal comparison goes something like this:

1) Customer Service/ Factory Support: well-established professional service & support by CZ / non-existing service by Howa or LGS (US importer)... simply the worst in industry. If there is a problem then assume you are eating it.
2) Aftermarket Parts/Upgrades: well-established aftermarkets upgrades/accessories for the CZ / practically nonexistent for Howa Mini. There's a member who is struggling to get a replacement extractor for his rifle... unacceptable.
3) Trigger: fantastic and adjustable to sub #1 on CZ / nothing to right home about and something to definitely upgrade.... luckily Timney started producing one recently for Howa Mini so there is maybe 2 options available.
4) Magazine: I really like having a removable magazine. The CZ is solid metal, compact and convenient to carry a spare 5 rounder in your pocket / Howa's rifle is crippled by the unreliable POS plastic Mag... forcing you to upgrade to aftermarket bottom metal

The only thing of value on a Howa Mini is the action ... nice size and decent construction. Everything else you need to build a rifle, you will need to source from another provider. Maybe this seems overly-harsh, but by comparison there have been no changes/modifications required for any of my CZ's to function reliably. In the long run I know that I can repair or upgrade my CZ, but I do not have this confidence with the Howa Mini. This is important since there aren't aftermarket parts.

If I am desiring a field gun then it should be reliable out of the box. If it requires a gunsmith to address any and all issues then I may as well have a full custom for the added frustration and expense.

[raamaudio]

OSO,
Very much appreciated, seems to cover all the basis of what we should be looking for and expect when buying anything really.

I like the idea of the Howa but far to many issues that leads me to be more interested in the CZ or the Ruger with a few simple things like stiffening the stock and polishing the bolt. If Tikka made the right for me 65G I would go that way over all the above.

Rick

[6.5G Master]

OSO, thx. Those are really good points. I’m leaning toward the CZ now. It looks to be under 6lbs right out of the box too so to your point shouldn’t require much more than ammo and a scope to be useful. It is lighter and has a shorter LOP than the Ruger so those are factors as well.

[Oso Polaris]

OSO, thx. Those are really good points. I’m leaning toward the CZ now. It looks to be under 6lbs right out of the box too so to your point shouldn’t require much more than ammo and a scope to be useful. It is lighter and has a shorter LOP than the Ruger so those are factors as well.

The size/weight and features makes CZ a great field rifle... I sell one for the company every time I bring mine to the range. Most people in Texas have never seen/heard of CZ, unless they shoot rimfire. All I have to do is let them shoot a few shots and try out the trigger and they are sold. It doesn't feel much larger than a 22LR, and this compact size is advantageous for hunting out of a blind, maneuvering around an ATV, or simply carrying it around in the woods. I really like having a reliable flush magazine and a spare one that fits in my pocket. Lastly, it is either a perfect full-size rifle for a youth/petite adult or compact field rifle for a full sized adult. Win Win in my house. Once you have one, your full-size rifle will start being left at home. Stick a suppressor on it and all smiles!!!

Accuracy is more than acceptable with factory barrels.