6mm ARC

[HuntTXhogs]

I got the other short barrels minus the gas tube too, not Dino11.

HTXH

[grayfox]

Oops my bad... are you pig popper on there?
Anyway, an update -- they have finally emailed and said return it "unopened" (more later) and unused, etc, and they will process a refund.
They had already sent me an RMA. And that no "Store credit-thingy" was acceptable since I cannot trust their site, nor them, to actually have something I want to buy, and this was their mistake, not mine.
I reminded them that at their request I had to open it to take a picture, because (they said) some people mistake the one vs the other... well there was no mistake as the picture showed them
So, thanks to Biodsl, you and any others who may have called I finally see movement.

Hth I would follow the same, keep standing your ground.
I will now give them a couple of days to make good on the refund, but have other capabilities in hand if they don't.

[HuntTXhogs]

Yes I’m PigPopper on the other page

They sent me a message today that they are processing a refund to me so you should get yours (I definitely opened the package).

I’ll send you a note when I see the refund hit my account

Hopefully this is all concluded soon ....

[biodsl]

Ha! If you remember, I sent an email 'encouraging' them to make good on those two bad orders. I got this reply today:

Can you provide me more information about this claim. We are not familiar. TJ

I hadn't gotten around to responding. Glad they're making good.

[HuntTXhogs]

Yeah they have many disconnects apparently - thanks for helping with the cause !

[HuntTXhogs]

I would call before ordering just to be sure it is in fact new unprimed brass , if anybody orders and receives please post back here that it is confirmed 6 ARC brass.

Too expensive for me after shipping and credit card fees.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/876883344

[HuntTXhogs]

Concerning factory ammo sticking in the lands of some barrels....

Here is a video I made of my proof having problems with 105 Factory Hornady Black and below the video is a recap of a phone call with a Hornady tech this morning ....

[video=youtube;Igt4FTFxa3A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Igt4FTFxa3A&t=467s[/video]

8/18/2020: I just got off the phone with Hornady.

They are not completely putting ODIN and Proof in the hot seat - the tech says they could stand to shorten the COAL for the 105 BTHP Black ammo.

He says what most likely happened is that Hornady sent “high speed reamers” out to barrel makers, these reamers are good for only 10-15 chambers (they are non-carbide).

It may be that these gun manufacturers went in to full production with these high speed reamers and so early runs of barrels can be short or tight in the throat.

He says I can seat the factory loads deeper to use what I have and I said no thanks.

He said maybe chasing the throat with a carbide reamer will fix my barrel and I said I wouldn’t want to do that to a 500 barrel.

So now waiting for proof to respond....

Update again - proof responded , they don’t have any 105 BTHP on hand to test barrels with, they requested photos of a chambered round which I will send to them shortly.

Meanwhile.... I talked to another barrel maker who is working on a barrel for me and they said they’re aware of the “issue” and they think the bullet diameter of the 105 grain BTHP is towards the higher end of tolerance.....

Continuing to trouble shoot this .

[grayfox]

Aggravating I know.
I'm glad (now for another reason!) I sent the proof back, it was only a 16" anyway.
About the "high-speed", makes some sense, they meant high-speed steel (vice carbide), only the first few chambers would've been ok and then the chamber depth would start to shorten up as the steel wore down...

My opinion, the 105 is not so much diameter being higher, rather the ogive profile might be "stubbier" than spec...

Everyone wants to blame the bullet/cartridge when other barrels seem to be doing fine, yet the problem children all seem to have the same last names... odin, now proof.
I would venture to say that Proof may have cut their chambers "shallow" to give the DoD guys a little more "lands-chasing" room plus they are shooting a longer ogive bullet anyway.

Come to think of it, with all the DoD testing Proof was involved in for ~2 years, don't think it makes sense to say that Hornady sent the wrong reamers.

[BluntForceTrauma]

they think the bullet diameter of the 105 grain BTHP is towards the higher end of tolerance.....

Went and measured the Hornady 6mm 105 HPBT ammo I have and — though my calipers may not be the most accurate — at the case mouth I get a bullet diameter of .2435.

[HuntTXhogs]

Same here , I bet the bullet is at the upper end of tolerance and my freebore is on the lower end of tolerance therefore I’m jammed up with this bullet...

[Cotay]

I just received my Shaw 6mm ARC barrel yesterday and this thing has a short throat. Both Hornady 108s and 105s are sticking horribly and the bolt won't close. This is with a .136 Grendel bolt. I tested with the ejector and extractor removed. This bolt, although never fired, has been used to test headspace on Go/No Go gauges in a Grendel barrel, so I know it's not an issue with the bolt.

Shaw asked me what bolt I was using and I told them .136. Their reply was "The bolt face is not deep enough, the ARC uses a Grendel 2 headspace off of a .140 depth bolt face."

I asked them where they got that incorrect information (I assume the person is rounding), and I'm waiting for their reply. But that doesn't give me much confidence in them. Never mind that even if the bolt depth was .140, the lugs still wouldn't engage in the barrel extension properly (see pic #2).

Also, the packaging that this barrel came in was destroyed when I received it. I really thought the barrel was going to be damaged but it appeared to be fine once I got it out. Boy am I disappointed; I had all of my other parts ready to assemble so I could shoot this weekend.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]16817[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]16818[/ATTACH]

[VASCAR2]

There are either .125” bolt face depth as is used in 5.56/223 and most 7.62x39 bolts. The 6.5 Grendel uses .136” +or- .001” tolerance. Sounds like they either used an out of spec reamer (maybe worn out) or they messed up on chambering dimensions. I hope the 6 MM ARC doesn’t suffer the same problems as the 6.5 Grendel with PTG reamers. I’d ask them whose reamer was used, my money says PTG!

[A5BLASTER]

I just received my Shaw 6mm ARC barrel yesterday and this thing has a short throat. Both Hornady 108s and 105s are sticking horribly and the bolt won't close. This is with a .136 Grendel bolt. I tested with the ejector and extractor removed. This bolt, although never fired, has been used to test headspace on Go/No Go gauges in a Grendel barrel, so I know it's not an issue with the bolt.

Shaw asked me what bolt I was using and I told them .136. Their reply was "The bolt face is not deep enough, the ARC uses a Grendel 2 headspace off of a .140 depth bolt face."

I asked them where they got that incorrect information (I assume the person is rounding), and I'm waiting for their reply. But that doesn't give me much confidence in them. Never mind that even if the bolt depth was .140, the lugs still wouldn't engage in the barrel extension properly (see pic #2).

Also, the packaging that this barrel came in was destroyed when I received it. I really thought the barrel was going to be damaged but it appeared to be fine once I got it out. Boy am I disappointed; I had all of my other parts ready to assemble so I could shoot this weekend.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]16817[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]16818[/ATTACH]

Soon as he would have told me that mess. I would have told them it's in the mail back to you and I want a refund and will contact my back and lawyer to fight to get my money back.

To the best of my knowledge there is not a single bolt manufacture that makes any bolt for any ar15 cartridge with a .140 bolt face depth.

I'm with vascar they dropped the ball and dont want to admit to their mistake and also believe like vascar the reamer most likely came from ptg.

[LRRPF52]

I just received my Shaw 6mm ARC barrel yesterday and this thing has a short throat. Both Hornady 108s and 105s are sticking horribly and the bolt won't close. This is with a .136 Grendel bolt. I tested with the ejector and extractor removed. This bolt, although never fired, has been used to test headspace on Go/No Go gauges in a Grendel barrel, so I know it's not an issue with the bolt.

Shaw asked me what bolt I was using and I told them .136. Their reply was "The bolt face is not deep enough, the ARC uses a Grendel 2 headspace off of a .140 depth bolt face."

I asked them where they got that incorrect information (I assume the person is rounding), and I'm waiting for their reply. But that doesn't give me much confidence in them. Never mind that even if the bolt depth was .140, the lugs still wouldn't engage in the barrel extension properly (see pic #2).

Also, the packaging that this barrel came in was destroyed when I received it. I really thought the barrel was going to be damaged but it appeared to be fine once I got it out. Boy am I disappointed; I had all of my other parts ready to assemble so I could shoot this weekend.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]16817[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]16818[/ATTACH]

Even if we give them the benefit of the doubt with this “Grendel 2” misnomer, there is no .140” bolt face depth. It’s .136” (-.003” tolerable, not +.004”).

Every new cartridge seems to go through this reamer spec madness once the high volume production makers get a hold of it.

Once everyone gets in a tizzy, the reamer maker will announce their “fix” to the reamer design, call it theirs, and push their new name for it, adding more confusion.

It’s one of the reasons why I normally just wait for at least 3 years to let all the dust settle, or just have Manson make the reamer.

Getting ammunition manufacturers and reamer makers on the same sheet even with SAAMI specs is pretty difficult for whatever reasons.

[Cotay]

Soon as he would have told me that mess. I would have told them it's in the mail back to you and I want a refund and will contact my back and lawyer to fight to get my money back.

That may end up happening depending upon what I hear (or don't hear) from them next. They were actively conversing via email with me this morning until I pointed out their error. Then they went dark two hours ago.

[kmon]

Even if we give them the benefit of the doubt with this “Grendel 2” misnomer, there is no .140” bolt face depth. It’s .136” (-.003” tolerable, not +.004”).

Every new cartridge seems to go through this reamer spec madness once the high volume production makers get a hold of it.

Once everyone gets in a tizzy, the reamer maker will announce their “fix” to the reamer design, call it theirs, and push their new name for it, adding more confusion.

It’s one of the reasons why I normally just wait for at least 3 years to let all the dust settle, or just have Manson make the reamer.

Getting ammunition manufacturers and reamer makers on the same sheet even with SAAMI specs is pretty difficult for whatever reasons.

Good points all

In my thinking if they say the bolt face depth should be .140 then there should be pleny of room in the chamber for the cartridge with a .36 boltface though .004 of the case might be unsupported.

As long as Hornady had with their press release being delayed due to COVID, and manufactures knowing about it months before the release and SAAMI specs available in March I see no real excuse about things being out of spec.

[Cotay]

I received an email around 9:30 this morning from the Plant Manager/Asst GM at Shaw. He has offered a replacement barrel or a refund.

His comments were "This could be a ammo problem. We ran into similar problems when the 224 Valkyrie when came out. Or it could be a chamber problem."

I think the first CS guy was just unaware. I haven't decided what to do honestly.

[kmon]

Sounds like they might take care of you. Good luck with which ever route you go.

[StoneHendge]

The 6 ARC gets an A as a cartridge. Hornady gets a flat out F on how to launch a new product. It would make an excellent business school study on how not to do it.

[HuntTXhogs]

Cotay - get your money back ASAP and go with either 6 Grendel or 6mmAR. That’s what I did.

Have you compared 6-ARC PUBLISHED load data velocity numbers to 6mmAR or 6mm Grendel ?

6-ARC was neat for about a week but yes due to ammo problems and chamber problems I can assure you , you don’t NEED a headache just to shoot 6mm in an AR-15 gas gun !