Requesting opinions regarding 6.5 Grendel for hunting

[Appalachian American]

Hello, I am new to this forum but have been reading it from a distance for a few months now. I recently put together a fairly nice 223 Wylde for 2K (not including optics) and I enjoy it a lot- so now I want to put together a 6.5 Grendel. I used Wilson Combat receivers/18" medium barrel/NiB bcg/gas block, Geisselle trigger/handguard, BCM furniture/buffer/charging handle, Troy BUIS, and a Surefire compensator for the Wylde build. I also bought an extra set of Wilson Combat receivers. Dealing with Wilson Combat required a lot of patience and I want this 6.5 Grendel to be a better rifle, as it will also be a hunting rifle out to 300 yards (usually much less) unless I take it with me out west. So, I am requesting input.....

My query for you 6.5 Grendel experts is as follows: should I use the WC receivers and buy the WC 20" barrel for the full build? OR, use both receivers and go with a different primary vendor for the barrel/bcg? OR, buy a full 18" rifle from Alexander Arms & add optics? OR, contact Mark at Precision Firearms, have him build the 20" upper and I build the lower with the WC receiver plus add optics? I would also appreciate opinions regarding the JP 6.5 Grendel bcg & barrels- WC really irritated me and I suspect my JP experience may be similar, so are they worth it if I decide to build with them? If so, keep WC receivers or buy JP? Final query- is side charge upper a plus for 6.5 Grendel? FYI- WC would show materials in stock on their web site, then send me notices the materials were not in stock/backordered. This process went on for months and was highly irritating- don't mind waiting if honest is up front.

Background- I live in mountains of East TN, have hunted all of my life, but I am only an average shot at best (mid-50s microscopist with eyes which have logged many thousands of hours on microscopes & electron microscopes in professional life- I just don't see as well as I did as a kid). I have no military or competitive shooting experience with rifles.. Having stated such, I've been hunting for 50 years, mostly with shotguns and bolts (.243 up to 7mm mag). I guess what I am really asking (in your opinion), is it worth the headache to build a rifle with less than 0.5 moa for someone like me- cool factor doesn't play here, so please be honest. Thank you very much for your time and opinion. Apologies for the book, just want to get this right.

[hill37]

I would go with a PSA upper. https://palmettostatearmory.com/daily-deals-new.html You have to search 6.5 Grendel for the deal to show up. Sorry about that. It should meet your needs. You could buy a lot of ammo and get to be a better shot. ,

[Bigs28]

Mark at precision firearms makes a great product. Sometimes their are delays in lead times but if you have the time i wouldn't hesitate to use him. I build my own but order barrels from him and they are outstanding.

[grayfox]

Welcome to the forum. You can build a very nice 6.5 Grendel for a lot less than 2K. Very nice.
Start with a quality barrel, there are some that are available off the shelf, or you can have one made by several mfrs.
Mark at Precision firearms has very good barrels, also at that level off the shelf I would say get a Lilja from Lilja.com directly, I have their 20" (the "740") and it is super. Quality but nice economy for the upper receiver (like Aero or BCM), and lower again Aero or bcm, or spikes -- there are several, use a nice lpk minus trigger kit -- look at joebob.com for lots of these parts, you can't go wrong.
Put your money into
a) barrel,
b) trigger,
c) optics,
and keep the rest as good pieces/parts but you don't have to buy name brand.

Geissele are great triggers, there are other choices I would look at like timney or "timney-like".

But the parts that really make you a better shooter are the three mentioned above.

[Bigs28]

Larue triggers are $80 now. Can't beat them for the price.

[PrecisionFirearms]

6.5 Grendel members get a 5% discount on all orders. Just email me after your place your order for a refund back to your card.

Mark Hostetter
Precision Firearms

[PrecisionFirearms]

New Members get 10% off one time order. Not valid on all products though like the less expensive barrels.

[VASCAR2]

There isn’t a lot of difference in velocity with typical 120-125 grain and 129-130 grain hunting bullets in barrels of 18” compared to 20” in 6.5 Grendel. If you use a bullet like the 129 grain Nosler Accu Bond Long Range (ABLR) it expands down to 1300 FPS where many bullets need from 1800 to 2000 FPS to expand depending on projectile. In many cases your looking at approximately 25-50 yards more hunting distance with a 20” barrel compared to a 18” barrel. Elevation and particular hunting bullet with ballistic coefficient and velocity have a bearing on effective range on your particular hunting ammo.

Whether you hunt with a suppressor might dictate a desire for a shorter barrel. Thick wooded terrain or mountainous areas can also dictate which barrel length is more suitable for your area of hunting.

Here are some chronograph results I obtained which will give you an indication of velocities for particular 6.5 Grendel barrel lengths. Lilja, Criterion and Wilson all get very good reviews and can usually be ordered without a delay in shipping. For rack grade barrels Alexander Arms get good reviews as do several other brands. If your interested in accuracy I think it is wise to spend money on a quality barrel.

12” 6.5 Grendel chronograph results


12” PSA SS with LabRadar.


123gr Hornady American Gunner bulk HPBT = 2201 FPS ave with SD of 14.7 (2" to 2.55" groups)
123gr Hornady ELD-M Black = 2265 FPS ave with SD of 13.2 (1.4 to 1.7" groups)
123gr Hornady Custom SST Factory= 2277 ave with SD of 11.8 (2.9 to 3.2" groups)


12” Faxon

Wolf steel case at 2364 Avg. SD was 9.7.

Here is a list of the tested ammo by average velocity for each barrel length. These results were achieved using a Magnetto Speed chronograph in 2016 on a 70-75 degree day. The PPU ammo is older ammo loaded with large rifle primers and has since been recalled by the manufacturer.

120 Grain HP BT PPU

16" 2392

18" 2455

20" 2480

24" 2559

110 grain FMJ PPU

16" 2510

18" 2570

20" 2614

24" 2683

123 grain A-Max Hornady

12” 2265 (123 grain ELD-M)

16" 2419

18" 2464

20" 2505

24" 2568

123 Grain SST Hornady

12” 2277

16" 2430

18" 2493

20" 2511

24" 2583

Hand Load 123 Grain Nosler CC, 31.0 grains CFE223, CCI 450

16" 2449

18" 2471

20" 2526

24" 2619

100 Grain FMJ Wolf

12” 2364

16" 2507

18" 2571

20" 2615

24" 2695

Hand Load 107 Grain SMK 28.5 IMR8208XBR, CCI 41 Hornady cases.

20" 2658

24" 2729

Hornady 123 grain American Gunner

12” 2201

Here is the difference between the 18” barrel compared to the shorter 16” barrel which was slower with every load.

120 grain PPU HP BT

63 FPS difference

110 grain PPU FMJ

60 FPS difference

123 grain A-Max

45 FPS difference

123 grain SST

63 FPS difference

Hand load 123 grain Nosler CC

27 FPS difference

Wolf 100 grain FMJ Steel cased

64 FPS difference


Difference between 20” and 18” barrel 6.5 Grendel

120 grain PPU HP BT

25 FPS difference

110 grain PPU FMJ

44 FPS

123 grain A-Max

41 FPS difference

123 grain SST

18 FPS

Hand load 123 grain Nosler CC

55 FPS difference

Wolf 100 grain FMJ Steel Cased

44 FPS difference

[Appalachian American]

Thank you (grayfox) for your reply. I chose the same Lilja 20" barrel if I go with either the full build or with Precision. I had thought to try the Timney trigger with a hunting rig. Optics I understand- it is how I make a living. Do I understand you correct- you suggest I build it with the extra set of Wilson Combat receivers?

[Appalachian American]

Thank you Vascar2. I understand the average to be ~25 fps difference in the 18 & 20 barrels and in the neighborhood of ~ 50 yards travel. I appreciate you providing the numbers. The 18" 223 Wylde WC barrel I have is very accurate. Do you suggest I build w/ the extra set of WC receivers or go a different direction? Thanks again.

[Appalachian American]

Thank you, Big28! Precision does appear to be the preferred shop with the folks who post regularly.

[Appalachian American]

Thanks Hill37. I've been shooting for over 50 years, was taught by a great-grandfather who was a very good shot and a grandfather who was not quite as good. One fought in WWI & the other fought in WWII. I don't think I am going to get much better.....but I did put 3 .243 rounds inside of a quarter at 200 yards last fall. Once! (Lol) I meant I cannot shoot with those guys ringing in at over .5 mile. My 7mm mag is zeroed at 300 yards and I plan to do the same with the 6.5 Grendel. We don't have to make those shots in the foothills (we call them mountains) of East TN & Western NC. I will pass on PSA but thanks.

[Klem]

Appalachian,

What scope are you going to mount?

Sub 0.5MOA (confidently and on average) is the holy grail of the AR15. You will spend your whole barrel life chasing this. For this sort of [rarely achieved] accuracy only the best barrels will do - Bartlein, Kreiger, Lilja. That said, no harm in wanting the best potential possible in a gun.

[Appalachian American]

Klem, I prefer Leuopold scopes. I agree with you- I can't consistently get sub 0.5 moa with my .243 bolt at 100 yards. I read/hear about folks who have that ability and my jaw drops. Of course, my jaw drops at those folks out west who can make those 0.5 mile (or better) hunting shots. Each to his own- my real point was I have real doubts as to ever being able to make such a claim even using the best barrel/trigger/scope setup. It's not that I mind to spend the money, it's just I am sceptical on the rate of diminishing return I would get with the 2500-3000 barrel/trigger/scope setup some folks use. Thanks for asking. Do you have an opinion on my original queries? Build, buy, buy upper/build lower, side charge upper....??? Thank you.

[FLshooter]

I’d get a a PSA $150 MOE lower and put the Geissele trigger in it.I’d get a standard upper and parts.Toolcraft bolt. I’d spend most my money good barrel.It is the most important component if you want accuracy. If you don’t mind waiting a couple months get a custom Bartlein from Craddock Precision. If you want it quickly,a pre fit Wilson combat or Criterion Hybrid will be more an adequate for hunting.

[grayfox]

AA, you're definitely in my age group!! I'm in the "half-century-plus" shootin' club, accuracy comes and goes, there are FAR better shooters on here than I!
As to the upper recvr and lower, you know-- if they are matched and you have them in hand, they would be good to go for you in this grendel build.
All I was saying is that for decent quality upper/lower and more or less stock pieces (exc for of course the trigger), you'll have a great build on your hands.
Building it gives you a lot of personal satisfaction since your own sweat and blood goes into it.
The build itself is not hard and there are lots of how-to's and videos on line you can learn srom. Plus the guys on here have a wealth of knowledge.
Take it a step at a time and don't rush it, you'd do fine I'm sure!
Final thought is, when it comes to the rifle stock, do some studying and make sure you get one that can give you a good cheek weld. This one thing helps me a lot in the AR.

[Wafavre2]

Go with Mark at PF, get the best barrel you can afford. Don't pinch penny's on barrel, bolt, BCG from PF , Larue 2 stage trigger, Larue QD scope mounts and a very good Scope. That way when you pull it out of the case and lock the scope on, it will not disappoint you.

Will

[tdbru]

AA,
i too am fond of Leupold. outstanding optics for the price. rugged in the extreme. boringly repeatable adjustments. you might consider a Foxtrot Mike FM-9 match trigger. brownells carries them. i sure like mine. it's a 2 stage, so if you've been familiar with the M1 or M14 it'll be a familiar trigger. and they're $89 which isn't too bad. previous poster all offer great suggestions. one thing to consider for a hunting rifle is, how much do you want it to weigh? those bull barrels are very rigid and all, will be as accurate as you can shoot, but it'll make it a lot tougher hiking up and down with a heavy rifle and all the other stuff one carries when out hunting on foot. Faxon has a 20" american gunner pattern that is going to be a bit lighter. SixFivearms, a vendor here, has a nice 20" tube too, that is not too heavy. i think he's back ordered on them at the moment. IM him and see when the next shipment comes in. so do you want 10+ lbs at 1/2 MOA or is 8lbs at 1MOA just fine? of course handguard choice, buttstock choice, etc. all go into the weight consideration. just some thoughts....
-tdbru

[Klem]

Appalachian,

Leupold is a reputable brand with lifetime warranty. They make a range from cheap-and-cheerful to good quality. If you want 0.5MOA you have focus less on cost savings here and more on quality.

Like you say, there's the Law of Diminishing Returns to consider. As you fork out more money the incremental accuracy gains lessen, until you become the weakest link in the system.

I think you should focus on the barrel as this is the heart of the gun, and be prepared to change it if it doesn't impress. This implies you build it yourself which puts a lot more control into your hands than otherwise. You might not save much money building it yourself but this is the only way you will have every single part exactly to your needs and priorities. It's a Lego set for adults and unless your time is money then there's no need to have others building half the gun, which then leaves you forever wondering whether you could have done a better job. Plus, it's your gun, you built it.

I would save $250 by not fitting those Troy BUIS. Let's be honest, quality scopes don't fail often enough to justify fitting a BUIS. Plus, what are the chances you will continue hunting with BUIS if this scenario were to ever happen (...and you could remove your scope in the field)? I have a plastic bag with three sets of Troy flip-ups sitting in the parts box. Took me a while to come to my senses.

That Surefire brake - You could probably save some more dollars there. Surefire charge like wounded bulls for pretty much everything they sell. If you look around you can find another brake that will diminish the felt recoil just as much, for cheaper. Perhaps consider not using a brake at all; it's not a heavy recoiling calibre.

Any dollar savings can go into the barrel fund. Consider buying more than one because one will always be better than the other.

I use the Geiselle National Match but there are other good triggers out there that you might prefer. The Geisselle's SSAE is also a good trigger for an all-round hunting precision rifle, but the NM is adjustable and can be adjusted lower. Geiselle retails double-stage triggers. There are single stage triggers from other manufacturers if you prefer this.

Consider using a fixed stock for maximum rigidity (accuracy), unless there's a compelling need to make it shorter.

Why do you need a side charger? Side chargers tend to be expensive and the normal design works perfectly well.

[Appalachian American]

Klem, I use the Leuopold VX 3i series- works for me but, as I have stated, I don't take those monster shots. Our range goes out to 300 yards, which is fine with me. And we only have one range like that in our county.

I don't plan to put a compensator on this rifle. The Lilja 720 is the early winner but I am still going to research it some more. I am still trying to decide between having the barrel fluted or just buying it as it sits. The side charger was more a curiosity question than anything. Thanks for your reply.