6 year Update: 12" Faxon Group Buy Suppressed Grendel

[A5BLASTER]

LRRPF sorry to side track but got to know.

Who is that handguard your useing made by? And who's gas block are you useing under it?

[LRRPF52]

LRRPF sorry to side track but got to know.

Who is that handguard your useing made by? And who's gas block are you useing under it?

I don't recommend the handguard because the barrel nut weighs about 4x what it should, and the rails will shred your hands without a rail cover. It's a Rousch sports.

If you're on a tight budget, I would get a Guntec 10" instead, or the LaRue Stealth 2.0 Upper/Handguard combo.

Gas block is a Sadlak I think.

[Kswhitetails]

I'm looking hard at getting the 10.5" Larue 2.0 upper. Hard. And an SB3.

[Csanders79]

Which optic did the ladies use?

[LRRPF52]

Which optic did the ladies use?

I'm not tracking this question? Ladies?

[Kswhitetails]

Comment earlier in thread about the SF guys that let the ladies use the reticle to good effect?

[LRRPF52]

Comment earlier in thread about the SF guys that let the ladies use the reticle to good effect?

Ah. The GRSC reticle.

[Bigs28]

Talked to Ed today with norden performance/grsc. He said they have a 1-10x they are working on. Same length and weight as the 1-6x with a 35mm tube that they hope to be for sale by December. Their starting promotional sale will be if you buy a 1-6x you get the 1-10x free.

[LRRPF52]

Over the past 2 weeks, I've taken this down to NS Range again and shot from 300-800yds with it.

Friday, I took my little kids shooting for the first time, and just grabbed a few blasters that would be fun. Started them off on a .22 LR rifle and let them sit in my lap while I shot anything bigger.

We went over to Buffalo Canyon and I tackled the 800yd buffalo right out of the gate, got a register, then put rounds on it with at least an 85% hit rate including the sighter, using Federal 120gr OTM Match this time just to see where it would be. Temp was 53˚F.

Impact was just above the 800yd stadia line for 5.56 M855 from a 14.5-16" barrel.

After letting the kids hear the impact on steel at 800yds several times, I dropped down to 450yds, all hits.

This was all done using a 25rd magazine as a monopod off my rifle case on a bench, pretty wobbly. This little gun is going to shoot really well off a bipod.

[LRRPF52]

This compact blaster has just been a joy to shoot. My main use for it is going out and ringing steel from 150-900yds, as well as a lightweight go-to, all-round performer.

It packs into a small weapon case that is easy to throw in the vehicle and go, vs the bulky, heavy, longer cases that still find a way to make life harder in the back of a larger SUV. When you’re loading tripods, spotting scopes, multiple range bags, medic bag, shooting mats, water, coolers, and other cases, it’s so much easier tossing a short bag in along with the rest of them.

I’ve had my youngest boy training on it now, learning fundamentals, and now shooting with it out to 780yds. It’s a great platform to train on since you can more easily see your sight picture and impacts on-target.

Yesterday, I made multiple consecutive hits on steel at 780yds without misses, then tried my hand on a 900yd 12” plate and connected 1st-round with witnesses. Even after shooting long range regularly since 1995, I was a bit tickled with that.

Here’s a pic through my Leupold binos with mil reticle where you can see the 400yd plate and 780yd buffalo sil.



The TBAC Ultra 5 (1st Gen) has never come loose on me, so that conical angle and threads seem to really work well with their brake-attach. At my last DM course a fews weeks ago, we saw some crazy fireballs coming out of it at night when shooting Wolf steel case, so I’m guessing Barnaul doesn’t use powder with flash suppressant.

The Faxon group buy Monster logo barrel has been great, holding accuracy well enough for me to make hits that are normally considered bolt gun territory at stupid distances. I normally don’t buy lower price point barrels, but wanted to see how these turned out. So far, so good.

The Bootleg Adjustable Gas carrier has been performing as-advertised, set at fully-suppressed position. Ever since the stupid GATF stamp cleared, I’ve shot it exclusively suppressed. Runs very well-behaved even for small-framed shooters. Remember that the action spring is an extra power carbine spring, combined with a standard 2.9oz carbine buffer.

Ammunition has included:

Federal 90gr TNT
Wolf 100gr FMJ
PPU 110gr FMJBT
Federal 120gr OTM AE
Hornady American Gunner 123gr BTHP
Hornady Black 123gr ELD-M

The 120-123gr hit the steel targets much harder, at least from what you can hear. The 110gr PPU is surprisingly-flat shooting and I think their BC is either on or maybe even under-stated. I had to keep changing my data to get it to match yesterday as it was better than what the program kicked out. I had written the 110gr PPU off as good 300-400yd plinker ammo for steel, but after being so consistent with it at 780-900yds, I changed my mind about it. It still sounds like you’re hitting with a 6mm though, so impacts aren’t as audible.

I really need to load up the 130gr RDFs.



I’ve been using the LaRue MBT-2S trigger throughout, which is a great 2-stage trigger.

I originally had a discontinued GRSC 1-4x24 on it which I broke last fall shooting it at this same range. I replaced that with a 1-6x24 GRSC made in Japan at LOW, which is a tough scope that has held up on full-auto AR-10 testing. The 1-6x reticle has stadia down to 1200yds calibrated for 175gr 16” .308, which tracks well with 123gr 6.5 Grendel trajectory. Using the reticle BDC, you are easily able to hit plates from 100-400yds 1st-round.

I’ve been using the LaRue SPR 1.5 mount the whole time. Have not had any issues with looseness of the base or rings, followed the distractions for install.

There are new ASC mags I’ve been using, along with Amend2, Elanders, and CPD, that have all been flawless. They seemed to have refined the design on the later ASC mags and it shows in the fit/feel/finish/function. I bought several 25rd ASCs to try out within the past few years. I de-edge, blend and polish my barrel extension feed ramps on AR builds, and make sure the ejector is radiused to prevent right side feed presentation hang-ups.

I’ve had one notable malfunction after the Wolf steel case was run through it at night, then the next day, had FTEx with brass case PPU. The Wolf really built-up a lot of soot in the chamber, especially running suppressed. Cleaned the chamber when I got home with a 6.5 Grendel-specific chamber brush and not a hiccup since. I prefer shooting brass-cased ammo, but a guy needed a loaner blaster since his POI was way high at 100yds and didn’t have any bottom left with the way his zero stop was set up, so he borrowed the 12” and ran steel through it.

Things I would have done differently, knowing what I know now:

* LaRue Stealth 2.0 Upper and Handguard combo in FDE (no problems with what I have, just that the Stealth 2.0 looks great and is truly free-floated with no contact between barrel nut and the handguard)

* I go back and forth on whether I should have gone with the TBAC Ultra 7 for being really quiet, vs the Ultra 5 for compactness. Had it been available then, I might have gone with the TBAC Dominus K-SR or the Gen II Ultra 5, which is even quieter and lighter than the Gen I that I have. I never complain about the Ultra 5’s compactness and lightweight, which delivers 100% of the time. From shooter’s perspective, it takes enough of the edge off of muzzle blast. The Ultra 7 used on the other 12” is noticeably quieter like what you would normally hear from a suppressor on a much longer barrel centerfire. The Ultra 5 I have is only 7.4oz, which doesn’t even feel like a suppressor on the end of the barrel, and more like a blank firing adaptor.

I have a Vortex Gen III 1-10x I haven’t even installed, which will likely make it easier to TGT-detect and shoot due to the generous FOV and clarity. I’m also looking at the March 1-10 Shorty Dual Plane FFP with DR-TR1 stadia tree reticle. A clip-on would be sick in conjunction with the tiny March.

[lazyengineer]

This compact blaster has just been a joy to shoot. My main use for it is going out and ringing steel from 150-900yds, as well as a lightweight go-to, all-round performer.

It packs into a small weapon case that is easy to throw in the vehicle and go, vs the bulky, heavy, longer cases that still find a way to make life harder in the back of a larger SUV. When you’re loading tripods, spotting scopes, multiple range bags, medic bag, shooting mats, water, coolers, and other cases, it’s so much easier tossing a short bag in along with the rest of them.

I’ve had my youngest boy training on it now, learning fundamentals, and now shooting with it out to 780yds. It’s a great platform to train on since you can more easily see your sight picture and impacts on-target.

Yesterday, I made multiple consecutive hits on steel at 780yds without misses, then tried my hand on a 900yd 12” plate and connected 1st-round with witnesses. Even after shooting long range regularly since 1995, I was a bit tickled with that.

Here’s a pic through my Leupold binos with mil reticle where you can see the 400yd plate and 780yd buffalo sil.



The TBAC Ultra 5 (1st Gen) has never come loose on me, so that conical angle and threads seem to really work well with their brake-attach. At my last DM course a fews weeks ago, we saw some crazy fireballs coming out of it at night when shooting Wolf steel case, so I’m guessing Barnaul doesn’t use powder with flash suppressant.

The Faxon group buy Monster logo barrel has been great, holding accuracy well enough for me to make hits that are normally considered bolt gun territory at stupid distances. I normally don’t buy lower price point barrels, but wanted to see how these turned out. So far, so good.

The Bootleg Adjustable Gas carrier has been performing as-advertised, set at fully-suppressed position. Ever since the stupid GATF stamp cleared, I’ve shot it exclusively suppressed. Runs very well-behaved even for small-framed shooters. Remember that the action spring is an extra power carbine spring, combined with a standard 2.9oz carbine buffer.

Ammunition has included:

Federal 90gr TNT
Wolf 100gr FMJ
PPU 110gr FMJBT
Federal 120gr OTM AE
Hornady American Gunner 123gr BTHP
Hornady Black 123gr ELD-M

The 120-123gr hit the steel targets much harder, at least from what you can hear. The 110gr PPU is surprisingly-flat shooting and I think their BC is either on or maybe even under-stated. I had to keep changing my data to get it to match yesterday as it was better than what the program kicked out. I had written the 110gr PPU off as good 300-400yd plinker ammo for steel, but after being so consistent with it at 780-900yds, I changed my mind about it. It still sounds like you’re hitting with a 6mm though, so impacts aren’t as audible.

I really need to load up the 130gr RDFs.



I’ve been using the LaRue MBT-2S trigger throughout, which is a great 2-stage trigger.

I originally had a discontinued GRSC 1-4x24 on it which I broke last fall shooting it at this same range. I replaced that with a 1-6x24 GRSC made in Japan at LOW, which is a tough scope that has held up on full-auto AR-10 testing. The 1-6x reticle has stadia down to 1200yds calibrated for 175gr 16” .308, which tracks well with 123gr 6.5 Grendel trajectory. Using the reticle BDC, you are easily able to hit plates from 100-400yds 1st-round.

I’ve been using the LaRue SPR 1.5 mount the whole time. Have not had any issues with looseness of the base or rings, followed the distractions for install.

There are new ASC mags I’ve been using, along with Amend2, Elanders, and CPD, that have all been flawless. They seemed to have refined the design on the later ASC mags and it shows in the fit/feel/finish/function. I bought several 25rd ASCs to try out within the past few years. I de-edge, blend and polish my barrel extension feed ramps on AR builds, and make sure the ejector is radiused to prevent right side feed presentation hang-ups.

I’ve had one notable malfunction after the Wolf steel case was run through it at night, then the next day, had FTEx with brass case PPU. The Wolf really built-up a lot of soot in the chamber, especially running suppressed. Cleaned the chamber when I got home with a 6.5 Grendel-specific chamber brush and not a hiccup since. I prefer shooting brass-cased ammo, but a guy needed a loaner blaster since his POI was way high at 100yds and didn’t have any bottom left with the way his zero stop was set up, so he borrowed the 12” and ran steel through it.

Things I would have done differently, knowing what I know now:

* LaRue Stealth 2.0 Upper and Handguard combo in FDE (no problems with what I have, just that the Stealth 2.0 looks great and is truly free-floated with no contact between barrel nut and the handguard)

* I go back and forth on whether I should have gone with the TBAC Ultra 7 for being really quiet, vs the Ultra 5 for compactness. Had it been available then, I might have gone with the TBAC Dominus K-SR or the Gen II Ultra 5, which is even quieter and lighter than the Gen I that I have. I never complain about the Ultra 5’s compactness and lightweight, which delivers 100% of the time. From shooter’s perspective, it takes enough of the edge off of muzzle blast. The Ultra 7 used on the other 12” is noticeably quieter like what you would normally hear from a suppressor on a much longer barrel centerfire. The Ultra 5 I have is only 7.4oz, which doesn’t even feel like a suppressor on the end of the barrel, and more like a blank firing adaptor.

I have a Vortex Gen III 1-10x I haven’t even installed, which will likely make it easier to TGT-detect and shoot due to the generous FOV and clarity. I’m also looking at the March 1-10 Shorty Dual Plane FFP with DR-TR1 stadia tree reticle. A clip-on would be sick in conjunction with the tiny March.

AWESOME POST! Thank you for this, and your works on this topic. It's been an inspiration in selecting some of my own configurations, and I can't deny the 12" BBL Grendel has to be the single most compact overall performance capable rifle package of all time. An amazing CQB rig, and yet retains sufficient power to be a distance target and pretty good distance hunting rig, all in an insanely tight package.

I do see you went from the cool PDW system to one that works on a more classic buffer tube. I assume the switch was for the weight savings?

[LRRPF52]

The Maxim PDW went to my friend’s build on Balios receivers from 2A Armament.

He went with the Ultra 7 TBAC suppressor.

[LRRPF52]

Here’s what the 1-6x24 reticle looks like, which allows more distance:



Doesn’t look like this actually through the scope, just a phone pic that doesn’t make the background clear.

This one has Mil Dots for movers and some vertical Mil dots on the sides if you look off to the left and right of the tree.

I use those to reference my ballistics program, which is what allowed me to make a 1st-round hit at 900yds 2 weeks ago.

At those conditions (85F, 23.8” hg pressure) for 100-200yds from the 12", that center dot works great. Drop at 200yds is just under the center dot, closer to it than the 300yd circle.

300yd circle center dot lines up perfectly for 123gr, with 1.5 mils drop.

400yd dot is about .1 mil above my drop for 400yds with 123gr.

500yd is closer to the dot between the 500 and 600yd dots.

780yd lines up with the dot right above 800 the 800yd dot.

800yd drop is right below the 800yd dot.

The 110gr PPU and 107gr SMK loads are noticeably flatter even from shooter’s perspective. 800yd drop is only 6.6 mils in the same conditions, vs 8.4 mils with 123gr ELD-M.

123gr just hits harder though. 123gr SMK and Scenar will have the same deflection as the 107gr SMK at 800yds, but 123gr ELD-M has more.

107gr SMK and 123gr SMK/Scenar will only deflect 1.6 mils at 800yds, vs 1.9 mils for the 123gr ELD-M.

[Zeneffect]

Is wind deflection calculated, or on real world experience? I noticed how flat the 105s are and want to play with the 107s + xbr. If the deflect less than the 123s it could be pretty good for my use.

[LRRPF52]

Is wind deflection calculated, or on real world experience? I noticed how flat the 105s are and want to play with the 107s + xbr. If the deflect less than the 123s it could be pretty good for my use.

I’m always looking at the wind, more than any other variable.

I think of wind-reading and try to mimic the Constantly-Computed Impact Point fire control system of the F-16 and later Teen Fighters HUD symbology.

The GRSC reticle has really nice features in that everything is based off 10”, with 10” hashes and gaps for the wind holds.

I study my drop and drift tables, primarily referencing my 1 mil drift point (where does this rifle/load hit 1 mil of drift with 10mph full value).

I then look at 1000yd drift, and form a mental set of brackets, filling in the subsequent drift data trend in my head. Then I overlay it on that reticle and have a great idea where it will go.

First shot gives me feedback on my wind deflection estimate, and then I immediately correct with as fast of a follow-up shot as possible with consistent fundamentals.

[drewthebrave]

LRRPF52 - Your informative & well-written posts are a big factor in my decision to build my first 18" Grendel almost a decade ago. Now I've finally added a 12" upper to the stable with hopes that it will fill the "do everything in a small package" role that's all the rage these days.

Just wanted to say thanks for sharing your experiences with this cartridge!

[LRRPF52]

My pleasure. I just checked with my friend who has the other 12” with the same core components but 2A Balios Lite receivers and handguard and he hasn’t had any issues with his to report either.

He’s been shooting a steady diet of 107gr SMKs through it on top of 8208 XBR, all suppressed.

[Konocti's Wigwam]

I just got my PST 1-4 back from Vortex, and have it mounted and ready to sight in.

I have one of the same scopes going on my 12" Faxon when it gets here. That's a Gen 1, right? I recently called Vortex and they sent me some shims, that system kinda sucks, but I also have a PST Gen1 2.5-10x32 scope. I want LPVO for hunting though. I recently bought the Arken EP8 1-8x28 LPVO on sale.

The Gen1 PSTs are good scopes, just that the shim setup is a bit wonky.

KW