A salute to our own BluntForceTrauma for leading the way to getting barrel makers realize that short barrel Grendels are a viable product for them.
I just received an email from Odin Works that they too now offer a 12" 6.5 Grendel barrel, along with Faxon's new offering (in 5R) adding to BA's 12 1/2" gives us 3 barrel makers stepping up to our plate with quality low priced product. Of course we lucky few get to tap into the group buy thanks to BFT.
My hat is off to you Sir, you have my utmost respect and thanks.
Not trying to be controversial or start a flame war or cartridge contest, especially as a new guy to the forum. So with all due respect I ask what value is there in a short-barreled Grendel? The wasted powder and lost velocity would seem to me to negate the benefits of the cartridge design. Don’t get me wrong, to each his own, and I’m not calling your wrong for buying one, but I’ve been of the mindset of use the best tool for the purpose, so if I needed an SBR then I’d consider a 300 Blackout or something in a pistol cartridge, or move to a 16” gun and train to make it work. I just don’t see the Grendel as the best tool for the job in an SBR build. That said, I do hope you enjoy any rifle you build/buy. I am a firm believer in the right to pursue happiness.
-Zac
Husband, Father, Veteran. Grateful for my redemption.
Zac,
Most of the users I read about here (I do not have one) use them suppressed.
A 12-12.5" grendel suppressed has effective hunting ranges out to ~300 yd and still have knock-down/penetration/expansion, according to the data in the Grendel Handbooks. A 10.5" barrel can reach to about 260 yds and still have 1800 ft/sec velocity.
The guys more experienced with these might weigh in, but seems to me that would be a nice quiet woods-huntin' package... reach out 'n' touch some deers, so to speak.
"Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"
There's more energy in the 6.5G out of a short barrel than any other viable cartridge in the AR15 platform out there. There's no real reason not to get one short barrel upper. Small package with a nasty punch. I have a 5.56 12.5" SBR, I'll do the same for the Grendel. Smaller rifles are handy.
Plus, as grayfox said, it isn't overly cumbersome when you suppress it. Every firearm I own is suppressed, the pistols are the only ones that have to share, all long guns have their own dedicated suppressor.
zcostilla Wrote:Not trying to be controversial or start a flame war or cartridge contest, especially as a new guy to the forum. So with all due respect I ask what value is there in a short-barreled Grendel? The wasted powder and lost velocity would seem to me to negate the benefits of the cartridge design. Don’t get me wrong, to each his own, and I’m not calling your wrong for buying one, but I’ve been of the mindset of use the best tool for the purpose, so if I needed an SBR then I’d consider a 300 Blackout or something in a pistol cartridge, or move to a 16” gun and train to make it work. I just don’t see the Grendel as the best tool for the job in an SBR build. That said, I do hope you enjoy any rifle you build/buy. I am a firm believer in the right to pursue happiness.
Powder is burned within the first inch or two of the barrel near the chamber, unless you're using a really poor choice for subsonic without full conversion.
6.5 Grendel is the cartridge to beat for SBRs and pistols.
With 123gr, you're anywhere around 2280-2350fps with factory ammo from an 11.5", 12", or 12.5" Grendel.
Guess what an AK's 16.3" muzzle velocity is with a 123gr? 2290-2360fps
Even the 10.5" Grendel smokes the AK, both shooting the exact same bullet weight, same basic case size/length.
The AK goes subsonic around 500yds. The 10.5" Grendel is still supersonic at least to 800yds.
For common hunting ranges, you have more impact speed, more retained energy, less drift.
Reason is one shoots 123gr with anywhere from .462 to .527 G1 BCs, the other is in the .240-.266 region.
A 10.5" Grendel has more energy at the muzzle than a 20" .223 Rem.
The big benefits to going 6.5 Grendel in an SBR or pistol are compactness with more energy, and room to suppress without exceeding the length of a typical carbine.
NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO
CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor
6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:
That's a good question. I assumed it was for use with suppressors or some tactical ideal. If you're coming from 30/06 deer hunting land, the Grendel seems like bowhunting. If you're from 5.56 land, the Grendel seems like a lot more.
11-25-2017, 05:06 PM (This post was last modified: 11-25-2017, 05:08 PM by zcostilla.)
I’m willing to say I stand corrected. I knew one of the reasons the Grendel was so great is its powder efficiency, it I didn’t realize it is THAT efficient. I’m building my Grendel as my one size fits all for small/medium game up to 400 yards (600 for varmint shots). But I wouldn’t have thought to give it the nod over the 6.8SPC or the 300 BLK for a dedicated short range system. And while I personally wouldn’t give up the velocity of the 8.5” of barrel lost because of what the velocity means for terminal ballistics, I can easily see why someone else would prefer to do just that.
Zac
-Zac
Husband, Father, Veteran. Grateful for my redemption.
zcostilla Wrote:Im willing to say I stand corrected. I knew one of the reasons the Grendel was so great is its powder efficiency, it I didnt realize it is THAT efficient. Im building my Grendel as my one size fits all for small/medium game up to 400 yards (600 for varmint shots). But I wouldnt have thought to give it the nod over the 6.8SPC or the 300 BLK for a dedicated short range system. And while I personally wouldnt give up the velocity of the 8.5 of barrel lost because of what the velocity means for terminal ballistics, I can easily see why someone else would prefer to do just that.
Zac
I use the Grendel for hunting and just shot my first deer with it. My intention was a 0-250 yard rifle for bear and deer in WA state. Not so much energy that I blew up the meat at close range, but still enough to get the job done at 250 yards. I went with the Grendel because it is so efficient. It doesn't have to be a "magnum" to still have good ballistics down range. The 18" Grendel that I built turned out to more than fit the bill. I took the deer at 230 yards at dusk while he was bedded down. It's actually about a 500 yard deer and bear gun. I really like it and plan on keeping it, but am still looking for something smaller.
So in my effort to make my 250 yard deer gun more compact, my AR pistol is getting an upgrade to 12.5" Grendel. This should be much more useful than the 7.5 inch 300blk that is currently on it and have no issues reaching out to 250 yards.
I am in Texas and the 12 inch Grendel is very handy while in the pickup for pigs. trying to handle a full size inside a standard cab is a bit cumbersome, The 12 inch pistol sits muzzle down on the console and is very quick to get out the window and is very effective on pigs out to 300 yards. If I am hunting pigs, I generally take the 20 inch for distance.
I have a few .300 BlkOuts (2 8.5 and 1 10). The 8.5s fit behing the passenger seats of cars (barely in a 911SC project). I have more than a few friends who have similar uses. One friend loves his dedicated suppressed version but I dont have the time or patience he dedicates to two part cast heavy weight ammunition.
I have only shot deer and hogs (14) and range varies from 30-180 yards with good quality bullets. I can hit out to 300 yards but Im not as confident in bullet performance as others at that distance.
I picked up a couple of the group buy 12 in 6.5G. The last six months or so hasnt allowed me the time to work them but (assuming no issues) plan using one to replace my current truck rifle and may try in one of my cars. Id like to find a stripper clip/guide combo that works AR 6.5G mags but
Quote: ... There's more energy in the 6.5G out of a short barrel than any other viable cartridge in the AR15 platform out there ...
Very interesting ... I would not have guessed that ... I could've written most of Zac words ... I guess I'd better run some numbers!! I think of grendel as the "distance" option ... and thought the .300BO was the "entry gun" and 6.8 was the short distance hunting gun ... so much for stereo types ... will run some numbers !!!
kansas Wrote:Very interesting ... I would not have guessed that ... I could've written most of Zac words ... I guess I'd better run some numbers!! I think of grendel as the "distance" option ... and thought the .300BO was the "entry gun" and 6.8 was the short distance hunting gun ... so much for stereo types ... will run some numbers !!!
No 5.56 as an entry AR15?
300BLK as a dual suppressed and medium hunting.
With the 6.5 Grendel I don't really see a place for the 6.8 unless you already have one.
Oh yeah, I actually hunt mostly with a stoner 5.56(10.3) ...
use 77gr for most critters, but 62gr TSX for hogs ... but never thought to try sbr upper with grendel cartridge ... so want to run numbers and see what it looks like.
Just starting in 6.5 and my plan from the beginning was an SBR to suppress. Not hunting with it. Just got bored with my 5.56 and 300blk and decided to try another caliber for plinking. All my SBRs are suppressed.
Looking at Texkitch's initial range results with the 110gr Controlled Chaos Copper bullet from Lehigh, he was getting an average of 2630fps in his top accuracy node (not the highest charge), from a 16" barrel.
That puts a 12.5" Grendel pistol over 2500fps on average with that bullet.
BC is .405 G1
Expansion is down to 1500fps.
Look at the numbers on that.
NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO
CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor
6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:
Those of us who shoot stuff outside of the gun range like them because they're a handy size, and have all the ballistics necessary for the vast majority of shot opportunities we have. The fact that this caliber offers several excellent choices of bullets that expand well even at low velocities makes it a lot more viable option too.
Talked to a girl at Odin works today. She said the 12" grendel sbr barrel kit they sold over the black Friday weekend sold out so fast they are adding it to their permanant line up.
Bigs28 Wrote:Talked to a girl at Odin works today. She said the 12" grendel sbr barrel kit they sold over the black Friday weekend sold out so fast they are adding it to their permanant line up.
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