Again, allow me to apologize to the Horde for sloppy spreadsheeting.
Bad news: Once home, I confirmed via the saved header data in the parent spreadsheet that the data was, in fact, from the 136 ScenarL and its .288 BC.
Good news: Even with the 123 Scenar and its .265 BC, the picture changes little. While the 22V has a slightly larger advantage on drop / drift, the energy still eludes it, even out to 1000.
I have not read all of the comments and apologize for any redundancy, looking at the 224V the comparison to anything other than another 224V is inconceivable. You may try individual comparisons of all components, the cartridge, bullet, powder, primer, firearm and test environment. At best you are painting a lemon green and calling it a lime. Remember Popeye "I ams what I ams"
Sea Leopard Wrote:I have not read all of the comments and apologize for any redundancy, looking at the 224V the comparison to anything other than another 224V is inconceivable. You may try individual comparisons of all components, the cartridge, bullet, powder, primer, firearm and test environment. At best you are painting a lemon green and calling it a lime. Remember Popeye "I ams what I ams"
Then read the OP at the least. There is the premise upon which these charts are based.
If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?
The 75 gr Berger VLD has a G7 of 0.217. 2900 fps is what I get with 27 gr of XBR out of an 18" - which Hodgdon just published as its max charge for 75s - they have it at 2969 out of a 24. But they have it at 3049 with H4350. Who woulda thunk. H4350 in 22 Nosler. Nosler didn't even think of it!
I originally got a 6.5 Grendel because I considered 223 to be too small for deer.
I know many have been killed with 22 caliber but it just seems too small.
I would say based on this information the 224 Valkyrie is better than the 6.5 Grendel for ringing steel at long range.
It might well be, but I consider this cartridge to be still in the Marketing Hype Phase. Need about a year for a consensus on real-world performance.
For pure long-range ballistics within the confines of the standard AR double-stack magazine and mag well, we've already had the 6mmAR, for example.
6.5 Grendel has its place doing many things very well, without needing to absolutely specialize in any one thing. It's like the F/A-18 Hornet. Damn good multi-role weapon.
We've got 85-grain varmint bullets for prairie dogs; 140-grain bullets for moose (about the same as traditional 6.5 Swedish). And all the other bullets and applications in-between. If I could have only ONE gun. . . .
I challenge Federal's lofty claims that 224 Valkyrie is the best MSR cartridge EVER. If the AK47 with a 123-grain bullet was good enough to serve the world's militaries for — what, 70 years? — the 6.5 Grendel with a 123-grain sure as hell is good enough. And that's without hardly trying to develop specialized projectiles. So 6.5 Grendel is still the best MSR cartridge EVER. Of this I have no doubt.
Plus, we've got cheap Wolf steel-case by the pallet-load.
Having said that, 224 Valkyrie still has my seal of approval, for all the reasons I've mentioned earlier in this thread. Probably should have been based on the Grendel case for even better performance, but it's a solid design in its own right. Put it this way: It's what the 6.8 SPC should have been.
:: 6.5 GRENDEL Deer and Targets :: 6mmARC Targets and Varmints and Deer :: 22 ARC Varmints and Targets
What BFT said. It's going to be a few weeks, but I'm going to pick up either some 90 gr SMKs or Bergers and single load them in my 22 Nosler with an OAL of 2.46 per the new Hodgdon data with H4350. I should be able to get close to 2700 based on the velocities they publish for other loads I've tried.
One thing is Sierra says the 90s need a twist of 1:6.5 and Berger says 1:6 for the VLDs and my 22N is 1:8. If a 224V barrel is optimized for 90s, it's going to make it a bit of a one trick pony since lighter bullets won't be able to handle the twist. Nothing wrong with that as I did a 1:7 on the 6mm Grrrrr barrel I ordered to stabilize the heavies at the expense of the lites, but the 224V will be even more magnified. There's a reason why there's a market for 1:14 22-250s.
In my original analysis, I opined that if the 224V uses widely available, standard 1:7 barrels, it would be a hit.
If it requires a non-standard barrel blank, I think its appeal will be more limited. Despite the constant innovation, the firearms industry is quite hide-bound, when it comes right down to it.
:: 6.5 GRENDEL Deer and Targets :: 6mmARC Targets and Varmints and Deer :: 22 ARC Varmints and Targets
Indeed. Everything is a trade off. The best investment in the firearms industry is probably in safe manufacturers because we all need bigger safes to store this new stuff we convince ourself we need!
StoneHendge Wrote:What BFT said. It's going to be a few weeks, but I'm going to pick up either some 90 gr SMKs or Bergers and single load them in my 22 Nosler with an OAL of 2.46 per the new Hodgdon data with H4350. I should be able to get close to 2700 based on the velocities they publish for other loads I've tried.
One thing is Sierra says the 90s need a twist of 1:6.5 and Berger says 1:6 for the VLDs and my 22N is 1:8. If a 224V barrel is optimized for 90s, it's going to make it a bit of a one trick pony since lighter bullets won't be able to handle the twist. Nothing wrong with that as I did a 1:7 on the 6mm Grrrrr barrel I ordered to stabilize the heavies at the expense of the lites, but the 224V will be even more magnified. There's a reason why there's a market for 1:14 22-250s.
Like BFT said, Grrrrr can do everything
Absolutely. My Remington VLSS, with its 1:14, can send 40 grain pills at 4000+ fps with laser-like accuracy to 500+ yards. It's the single most effective p-dog eradicator in my arsenal. Having said that, I still shoot my 6.5's ten times more often. Why? Utility - that's why. They will do what the 24" 22-250 can only imagine doing, especially at distance.
If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?
Now that we know the 90 gr SMK with a G7 of .256 will be the factory offering why do they keep flogging the "supersonic to 1300" meme? I come up with the 90 gr launched at 2700 going subsonic at around 1150 at sea level at 59 degrees F.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]10067[/ATTACH]
Sure, it will stay supersonic to around 1350 in my parts, but a 22lr will stay supersonic to 1300 yards if you go high enough.
SH, I ran the numbers, as well, using JBM Ballistics calculator and Litz BC for the 90 SMK and 2700 fps from a 24" bbl and at 1100 yds I got a velocity of 1103 fps at sea level and 59 degrees (speed of sound is 1116 fps).
Like I said, we'll see how real-world numbers shake out.
But you'd think Federal's engineers would be able to use these ballistics tools as well as us amateurs. . . .
:: 6.5 GRENDEL Deer and Targets :: 6mmARC Targets and Varmints and Deer :: 22 ARC Varmints and Targets
Engineers yes... but marketeers, well that's another story!! It's an interesting cartridge but seems more of a niche-type.
Plus, in several states (VA is one) deer hunting is verboten with a 223 caliber.
"Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"
StoneHendge Wrote:Now that we know the 90 gr SMK with a G7 of .256 will be the factory offering why do they keep flogging the "supersonic to 1300" meme? I come up with the 90 gr launched at 2700 going subsonic at around 1150 at sea level at 59 degrees F.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]10067[/ATTACH]
Sure, it will stay supersonic to around 1350 in my parts, but a 22lr will stay supersonic to 1300 yards if you go high enough.
When I ran the numbers with G7 drag model, it never made it to 1300yds either.
Not sure what ballistic modeling they're using, but a tight twist will help keep it stabilized better through the transition.
NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO
CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor
6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:
Goes on to say that one of his teams used 224V for Team Safari a few weeks ago - both Team Members, so one as a carbine and one as a precision rifle. I'm actually heading down to Blue Steel Ranch Thursday for Intermediate "class" - maybe they'll have one there
On another note, the newsletter says they are moving all 22" barrels to an XL gas system.
*Just found results - Team 224V came in 35 out of 42
![[Image: 1_000.png]](https://s1.postimg.org/3iisfoxlvj/1_000.png)