The Threat is Real, very real.

[Klem]

Until they find some evidence that points to a more interesting motive it's just some old crazy b*stard's planned suicide. We know from his neighbours that he was anti-social, and we also know he was socialised by a morally corrupt father; a convicted bank robber. For a while his dad was the FBI's Most Wanted so an important person in his sons eyes. His dad stood up to the rest of society while on the run. That sort of thing can leave an impression on a son.

Getting towards the end of his meaningless life and wanted to go out in familiar infamy. Engineers his own movie where he gets to star as the master antagonist; for a brief moment the focal point of an entire population, just like his dad. The apple didn't fall too far from the tree.

He sends his partner off to the Philippines to be with her family and then wires her $100K (her two sisters gave an interview last night). Prima facie she didn't know.

While it is exciting to think there might be a second shooter on the grassy knoll, or a covert Islamic sleeper cell the most likely reason is the one that best fits the evidence - relevance deprivation syndrome. He was a big stakes gambler who saw suicide as his last hand, with potentially the biggest payout of his miserable life. In his own twisted mind he probably won.

[stanc]

The level and detail of planning gives ample food for thinking about how much help this guy had and from whom...

Oh, yes. It takes a huuuuge amount of planning to:

Book a hotel room.
Bring guns into the hotel in luggage.
Break window.
Shoot guns.

Puhleeez.

[Drift]

JASmith point is well taken. To gather the needed intelligence, scout out different venues for alternate potential places to attack, figuring out the best shot angles of attack for a kill box, picking the time, figuring out the logistics of transporting an arsenal by car, accessing the hotel room with enough supplies for a couple of dozen rifles with associated gear like tripods/ different scopes/ ammo/water/ food/como, all the while staying under the radar speaks to a level of sophistication that is breathtaking..or shows a unbeliviable level of luck.

[Klem]

I remain unconvinced this was breathtakingly 'sophisticated'. It's a simple plan executed by an intelligent individual. With a bit more thought he could have remained at large and murdered more people.

[stanc]

JASmith point is well taken. To gather the needed intelligence, scout out different venues for alternate potential places to attack, figuring out the best shot angles of attack for a kill box, picking the time, figuring out the logistics of transporting an arsenal by car, accessing the hotel room with enough supplies for a couple of dozen rifles with associated gear like tripods/ different scopes/ ammo/water/ food/como, all the while staying under the radar speaks to a level of sophistication that is breathtaking...

Nonsense. The dates and locations of Las Vegas concerts are advertised; Google maps will show the location of hotels relative to outdoor concert venues; for an attack like this it isn't necessary to figure out "the best" firing angles; loading and driving a car is easily done by any able-bodied, adult male; taking one or two suitcases at a time into a hotel over a period of a couple of days was unlikely to attract attention; there's no need to bring food and water into the hotel when one can order room service; and commo isn't needed by a lone individual.

[JASmith]

Oh, yes. It takes a huuuuge amount of planning to:

Book a hotel room.
Bring guns into the hotel in luggage.
Break window.
Shoot guns.

Puhleeez.

We know from the Sheriff's news conference that the sheer volume of material brought to the hotel raises suspicions that others were involved. The level of planning was indeed impressive,

The speculation is reasonable. A response beyond a juvenile rolling of eyes might lead to more productive discussions.

Regardless, the investigation will take time and we might then know whether this was truly a lone wolf, active act of terrorism, or something in between.

[stanc]

We know from the Sheriff's news conference that the sheer volume of material brought to the hotel raises suspicions that others were involved.

Nothing was brought in that couldn't have been easily handled by an able-bodied adult male.

The level of planning was indeed impressive,

What do you find so impressive about renting a hotel room overlooking the target?

The speculation is reasonable.

In the absence of any indication that other people were involved, the speculation seems like a wet dream of conspiracy theorists.

A response beyond a juvenile rolling of eyes might lead to more productive discussions.

Actually, rolling of eyes is an appropriate response to the idea that booking a hotel room and bringing in luggage is indicative of an unusually high level of planning.

And I gave a more extensive and detailed response in post #45.

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

(http://abcnews.com/Politics/sen-feinstei...d=50276506)

[Klem]

Hey, it's all speculation given he topped himself and is not around to be grilled. My theory that he's a just a homicidal old b*astard is also speculation. What is for certain is there is no evidence so far at the scenes that he's a radicalised terrorist, or that there's more than one bad guy. Maybe in time we will find out he was lured there by terrorists who then topped him to make it look like he did it. Like in the movies. Reminds me of that old classic movie Telephon, where the brain washed Soviet sleepers are brought to life by Donald Pleasance and Charles Brosnan has to clean up the mess...
.
"The woods are lovely dark and deep but I have promises to keep and miles to go before I sleep. Miles to go Stephen..."

[video=youtube;KbxIyjecJgw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbxIyjecJgw[/video]

[41bear]

The progressives inside the beltway can't even wait until the blood dries on the cement to bellow out their puke. There is only one thing on their agenda kill the Second amendment and they appear to drool over each and every body downed by gun fire. It is so simplistic as to be laughable if it were not so scary given the reaction by the conservatives sitting across the isle from them.

To think that a law would have deterred this guy from his mission is not only crazy but detracts from the real need to look into the root cause of violence in this country.

With all that said the reactions of my fellow citizens in these last few months to both nature's and man's assault is a wonderful tribute to human kind, we have given freely of both our time, blood, and money to help our fellow man. Common man with uncommon valor!

[JASmith]

Here is what Fox News quoted from the LV Sheriff:

"Clark County, Nev., Sheriff Joseph Lombardo said Wednesday that it was only logical to “make the assumption” that Stephen Paddock had “some help at some point” in pulling off Sunday's massacre."

(http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/05/las...point.html)

Nothing was brought in that couldn't have been easily handled by an able-bodied adult male.


What do you find so impressive about renting a hotel room overlooking the target?


In the absence of any indication that other people were involved, the speculation seems like a wet dream of conspiracy theorists.


Actually, rolling of eyes is an appropriate response to the idea that booking a hotel room and bringing in luggage is indicative of an unusually high level of planning.

And I gave a more extensive and detailed response in post #45.

[BjornF16]

(http://abcnews.com/Politics/sen-feinstei...d=50276506)

So no grandfather clause...

[Klem]

Here is what Fox News quoted from the LV Sheriff:

"Clark County, Nev., Sheriff Joseph Lombardo said Wednesday that it was only logical to “make the assumption” that Stephen Paddock had “some help at some point” in pulling off Sunday's massacre."

(http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/05/las...point.html)

That's fine, Lombardo is entitled to make assumptions too. Maybe he's referring to the hotel bellhop helping Paddock up to his room with all those heavy bags. Seriously, until his team finds evidence of a second shooter then it's Stephen Paddock by himself.

[JASmith]

That's fine, Lombardo is entitled to make assumptions too. Maybe he's referring to the hotel bellhop helping Paddock up to his room with all those heavy bags. Seriously, until his team finds evidence of a second shooter then it's Stephen Paddock by himself.

My sense is also that there was no second shooter.

On the other hand, the sheer logistcal mass and planning apparently involved would seem to seriously stress the resources of a single individual.

But, he had that hotel room for several days and so had time to lug it all in by himself. Those hotels are so busy that the staff might not necessarily notice that the same person was making multiple trips in out out with bags.

With luck, the security cameras recorded all the activity on that floor and over the rest of the hotel. That would indicate whether he had help during that part of the prep. Nothing I know of has been said about that part of the investigation to date.

[stanc]

Here is what Fox News quoted from the LV Sheriff:

"Clark County, Nev., Sheriff Joseph Lombardo said Wednesday that it was only logical to “make the assumption” that Stephen Paddock had “some help at some point” in pulling off Sunday's massacre."

"As evidence, Lombardo pointed to gunman Paddock’s huge arsenal, explosive materials found in his car and his meticulous planning."

Are there any of those which could not be done easily by one man???

[stanc]

My sense is also that there was no second shooter.

On the other hand, the sheer logistcal mass and planning apparently involved would seem to seriously stress the resources of a single individual.

:confused: I'd like to know why people like you think it was such a challenging task for one man.

Las Vegas concerts are advertised, so it would be easy to learn the dates and locations.
It takes only a few minutes to do a google map recon for hotels near the concert venues.
Booking a hotel room can easily be done in a few minutes by anyone with greater than a double-digit IQ.
The FoxNews article you quoted says he "spent decades stockpiling guns," so he already had the necessary weapons.

What is it you find so monumentally difficult that would "seriously stress the resources" of a single individual???

But, he had that hotel room for several days and so had time to lug it all in by himself. Those hotels are so busy that the staff might not necessarily notice that the same person was making multiple trips in out out with bags.

Precisely. Who's going to notice one person out of many bringing luggage into a hotel the size of the Mandalay Bay?

[montana]

I would like to see if he was a consumer of any psychotropic medicine. Bill stated awhile ago that the follow up and care with the mentally ill is disgraceful and most of these mass killers were users of some form of psychotropic drug. I'm afraid the real lessons of these type of mass shootings will once again be brushed aside for advantageous political reasons.

[LRRPF52]

I haven't heard anything in all the videos, and I've watched/listened to many of them now, that indicates a second shooter.

I've heard a lot of automatic fire from support-by-fire positions when maneuvering as an assault element, to include both 5.56 SAW and 7.62 NATO M60 and M240 fire, including in urban environments at distance. The first time you hear machine-gun fire in an urban environment, you hear the supersonic mach waves of the projectiles, then the muzzle report, and quickly work out in your head what one gun versus two guns sounds like. Echoes in the urban terrain can be very deceiving to someone who hasn't heard it before, but it only takes a little while to distinguish what is what.

When 2 or more guns are rocking, it's pretty easy to tell. I don't hear that in any of the videos that have been posted, and given the stacks of Surefire 100rd mags he had plus the Bumpfire stocks, I'm not seeing any inconsistencies in what he was able to do as a loner. Not saying there was a 2nd shooter, but everything appears to be consistent with a single shooter at this point.

One of the more overlooked physical tasks he had to pull off was breaching those windows, which are tempered very strong and have laminates applied to them. The vet in one of the floors below him said he heard explosions, then automatic fire, and could tell when he switched between 5.56 and 7.62 caliber weapons. I'm wondering if he used some of the Tannerite or improvised explosives to blow out the windows, then clear the glass with the small sledge hammer. Even after being cracked, those windows are not easy to displace for firing ports.

Another big question is where was the video he set up being streamed to? Sheriff Lombardo (who has previously stated that he supports magazine capacity restrictions) said the suspect used an unusually high bandwidth of internet data to stream to some other location overseas.

[Klem]

Interesting assumption, that he used his Tannerite to blow out the window. He would have to know something about window breaching. Using precisely what was needed and no more, especially if he was taking cover inside the same pressure containment vessel.

I have experience with explosives; both in the military and a few years ago as a licenced Shotfirer for a drilling company. He would have to have had that powder in intimate contact with the window for something as precise as cutting. This means he would have needed some sort of frame and practised with it to know how the velocity of detonation (VOD) of that substance acts when it comes to changing direction in the frame. Or, you could rely on the overpressure of Tannerite which means you would need a beaucoup amount in the pressure containment vessel; the room. At the same he was turned into a smoked vegetable it would have popped the door into the corridor. Tannerite also produces a lot of smoke and flash (contains aluminium and titanium powder) which would have acted like a giant flash-bang. Without a breathing mask he would have been incapacitated. Tannerite flash/smoke would have been visible to the 100's of people below as it poured out that window. Regardless of all this, the police would know all this by now and reported it to the media. Nothing so spectacular I am afraid, just a crazy old guy with a big hammer. The people downstairs made a mistake interpreting the thumping.

The other point you make about Lombardo's concern over his high bandwidth streaming is interesting...That Sherriff seems to be feeding the media's thirst for immediate answers with speculation. Police should stick to the facts and leave the speculating to the media, the public, and conspiracy theorists. Maybe as a wealthy guy he could afford a fast internet service, for no other reason than it's fast.

[bj139]

Motive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT43u1wvy-4

We, as AR and gun owners, are clearly in the crosshairs.