6.5 Grendel vs brick wall??

[Reno82]

I'm looking for a video or information about the capability of the 123 gr round versus a brick wall. Will it destroy a brick wall like a AK 7.62x39.


Also I heard or saw 6.5 30 caliber.... what is this?

[LR1955]

I'm looking for a video or information about the capability of the 123 gr round versus a brick wall. Will it destroy a brick wall like a AK 7.62x39. Also I heard or saw 6.5 30 caliber.... what is this?

R82:

A brick wall? Why brick and not what would most likely constitute a real intermediate barrier where small arms ammunition has a chance of penetrating within a hundred rounds or so?

You see, with the information you have provided, no one can make a response other than an opinion based on prejudice, not facts and logical assumptions. So, you want a answer that is more than someones prejudice then please provide the following information.

What type of brick, how thick, how is it held together, distance from the brick wall, angle of obliquity, ammunition mean radius, bullet construction to include jacket thickness and material type, mean impact velocity with SD and ES. That ought to start it out.

The military has what is known as effects data where they do in fact shoot various things with small arms to determine lethality potential and how many rounds need to be fired at a target before an assumption can be made that the target was destroyed or damaged. It is pretty neat stuff but the questions I asked need to be answered before any answer can have credibility.

So, fill in the blanks and lets see what happens!


LR55

[Timmy Toughnutz]

I think you might be referring to the Future Weapons program where he shot through a cinder block, it wasnt a reinforced wall. If you are looking for a weapon that can compete with the urban legend of the Ak47 to shoot through walls, i can point you in the direction of a .50BMG with depleted uranium tips.... that will show those stupid walls. If you want a reliable platform with a highly accurate round, there are a lot of different ones to choose from. I will say that the 6.5 Grendel is one of my favorite rounds, and I enjoy shooting my carbine immensely. My experience is with combat and the related weapon platforms associated, there are plenty of other people in this forum who seem to be credible, and can offer other POV too.

[VASCAR2]

From my own testing with different calibers it all boils down target to construction, projectile velocity/energy, projectile construction, projectile caliber and angle on target. Change any of these items in the test and your results will also change. Real world highest energy least deforming bullet of smallest caliber will penetrate most when comparing to other projectiles. My 2 cents.

[Reno82]

I was just wondering..... since 7.63x39 can be necked down to a 6.5 grendel case could the 6.5 grendel with a 123 gr bullet do the same damage as the mother case. Non reinforced wall with standard building cement brick. I'll do a search on youtube and see what I come up with. Thanks for everyones input.

[bwaites]

Grendel has a better sectional density than 7.62x39, so assuming similar bullet construction, the Grendel should at least match the 7.62x39 damage, and probably do better.

However, scientifically LR1955 has the best idea!

[LR1955]

I was just wondering..... since 7.63x39 can be necked down to a 6.5 grendel case could the 6.5 grendel with a 123 gr bullet do the same damage as the mother case. Non reinforced wall with standard building cement brick. I'll do a search on youtube and see what I come up with. Thanks for everyones input.

R82:

Remember that the Grendel case is only similar to the 7.62 X 39 case. The Grendel case has much more volume and that translates to velocity which is vital in terms of kinetic energy. Its mother case is not a 7.62 X 39 but rather a 6 PPC and in this case the differences are significant.

When you are talking about terminal ballistics and particularly penetration and residual penetration you must state the construction of the bullet, the impact velocity, obliquity angle, and if you can the yaw. Unfortunately. you must state very specifically the material, its dimensions, and its thickness. Sorry but otherwise a test can be rigged in favor of one cartridge.

Also, you must define very specifically the bullet construction of both or once again, such a test can be rigged in favor of one over the other. This is elemental to the question. There are many varieties of 120 and 123 grain bullets and a couple of variations of the bullet used for the 7.62 X 39. All will show different penetration properties. And lets say a 123 grain 6.5 bullet doesn't do as well as a 126 grain 7.62 X 39 but a 115 grain 6.5 bullet performs significantly better in all tests. What would the conclusion be then?

However, if your material is such that both penetrate it, then you need to look at the effect on what ever is behind that wall you are trying to hit. Called residual penetration and it is a lethality.

So, the question being asked lacks the types of specifics needed to provide an answer that is more than a 50 / 50 flip of the coin guess.

LR1955

[JASmith]

One of the reasons this forum does so well is that enough folks take the scientific approach to informing their opinions. We can "prove" something by a test, but absent a record of how the test was designed, one cannot form a valid opinion.

Lest folks think I'm confusing "opinions" with "facts," we need to remember that very few experiments are adequately definitive even when specified to the degree that LR1955 suggests. I will admit, however, following his advice will remove just about all of the unknowns that folks can control.

After that subjective or objective judgment is applied, and the opinion is formed. The facts are "how many rounds were needed to pierce the wall, given that the shots were defined using specified criteria." The opinion is formed when the observer concludes that one cartridge does "better" than another based on a specified number of experiments --- the variability of these tests means that the observer can still draw a conclusion that is opposite of what a lot more experiments would indicate!

[BlueOvalBruin]

What color is the wall?

[bwaites]

What color is the wall?

Those color of brick, of course: