New Marine Corps weapon to replace SAW

[ahillock]

If you want to save weight, leave the pistol at home...

Keep the pistol, if you are ever in a fight and your rifle magazine runs dry....."The fastest reload is transition to secondary weapon."

[dobrodan]

Keep the pistol, if you are ever in a fight and your rifle magazine runs dry....."The fastest reload is transition to secondary weapon."

If you are ever in a fight, make sure you don´t run dry... Change mags before they run dry.

Sure, there are situations where pistols are very nice to have, but not often, unless you do FIBUA or other stunts, which I suspect will be rarer and rarer. (Micro-drones will propably take care of those situations in the future)

Also I suspect the future "heart and minds" philosophy will evolve into "shake fear into their hearts, and sense into their minds". The gloves in the war on terror is about to come off, I suspect...

[cory]

If you are ever in a fight, make sure you don´t run dry... Change mags before they run dry....

Oh of course, why didn't we think about this? Because it's completely unrealistic! Even for the most experienced operators, mags will run dry if they find themselves in an intense firefight.

Back in my day I could change a mag in well under a second. Whether it's quicker to draw a pistol than reload a mag I'll give you is arguable at least to some degree. However, what is not arguable is how much quicker it is to pull a pistol as opposed to correct a failure to function of your rifle.

... Sure, there are situations where pistols are very nice to have, but not often, unless you do FIBUA or other stunts, which I suspect will be rarer and rarer. (Micro-drones will propably take care of those situations in the future)...

??? Micro-drones???

[dobrodan]

Oh of course, why didn't we think about this? Because it's completely unrealistic! Even for the most experienced operators, mags will run dry if they find themselves in an intense firefight.

Back in my day I could change a mag in well under a second. Whether it's quicker to draw a pistol than reload a mag I'll give you is arguable at least to some degree. However, what is not arguable is how much quicker it is to pull a pistol as opposed to correct a failure to function of your rifle.



??? Micro-drones???

Sure, but If you make sure you keep an almost full mag in your weapon at all times, then you are at least as prepared as you can be for that firefight.
You might run dry, or have a failure to fire, but you should usually (at least as regular infantry or recon) have somebody nearby that should be able to give immediate covering fire.

Also, if you are in such an intense firefight that you run dry, how often would a pistol save your butt? With tunnel-vision, and adrenaline coming out your ears, you would probably not be able to hit anything further away than 5m with a pistol. If you are lucky, you might distract your opponent, but most likely, you would not be able to take him or them out.

Micro-drones: http://www.proxdynamics.com/home

[ahillock]

Guess what the Marines had to do to fix the issues they have had with the M27, start using Magpul PMAGs again

Marines to Get PMAG to Fix M27 Woes with M855A1 Round

Marines are free to use the PMAG at last.

In welcome news for many a Marine (and Magpul employee), the Marine Corps has finally approved the high-performing PMAG magazine for use on the M27 Infantry Automatic Rifle, as well as the M16A4 and M4 carbines.

http://kitup.military.com/2016/12/pmag-m...round.html

[BluntForceTrauma]

Anybody know how Pmags hold up in subzero temps? Siberia? Korea? This polymer doesn't get too brittle in freezing cold, does it? My neck of the woods in Minnesota was minus -16°F the other day.

In other words, I hope Pmags are truly tested military grade, and not just sportsman grade, before the USMC makes a kneejerk reaction and buys a zillion of them.

[LRRPF52]

There were earlier PMAGs that had lip cracking issues on the drop tests in -60 F.

Aluminum mags will bend.

They made some changes to address the drop test requirements and have some pretty impressive round counts with M855A1 and M3 PMAGs.

[Mike Wood]

Back in my day I could change a mag in well under a second.

Video or it didn't happen...hahaha

I love this thread. It's like a shepherds pie of info

[montana]

Guess what the Marines had to do to fix the issues they have had with the M27, start using Magpul PMAGs again

Marines to Get PMAG to Fix M27 Woes with M855A1 Round



http://kitup.military.com/2016/12/pmag-m...round.html

The other conclusion is the P-mag is just an interim replacement for the legacy magazine. Here is the story from the Firearm blog.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/...ag-gen-m3/

[stanc]

Whether it's quicker to draw a pistol than reload a mag I'll give you is arguable at least to some degree. However, what is not arguable is how much quicker it is to pull a pistol as opposed to correct a failure to function of your rifle.

Being able to pull a pistol when your rifle malfunctions would certainly be nice during room clearing, but probably not much value during most firefights.

In any case, the point seems kinda moot. I mean, how many riflemen are even issued pistols?

[ahillock]

Being able to pull a pistol when your rifle malfunctions would certainly be nice during room clearing, but probably not much value during most firefights.

In any case, the point seems kinda moot. I mean, how many riflemen are even issued pistols?

I don't know, ask the DOD.

[stanc]

I don't know, ask the DOD.

http://i.imgur.com/i5DlIMP.jpg?1

Spec ops don't count. I'm talking conventional infantry.

[cory]

Officers, SNCOs, most NCOs, and about 10% of LCPLs, PFCs, and Privates. So to answer your question not nearly enough are issued a pistol.

I'm currently working on a white paper on a better way to replace the M9. The proposal would change this problem, but this is a conversation for another thread at another time.

[ahillock]

Spec ops don't count. I'm talking conventional infantry.

You didn't say that. You said "how many riflemen are even issued pistols" and I just showed you a rifleman that is issued pistols.

[stanc]

Officers, SNCOs, most NCOs, and about 10% of LCPLs, PFCs, and Privates. So to answer your question not nearly enough are issued a pistol.

My question was how many riflemen are issued a pistol? Not how many Marines.

Since you were talking about riflemen having a pistol, I took that to mean those individuals for whom a rifle/carbine is their primary weapon, not every Marine/Soldier.

I'm currently working on a white paper on a better way to replace the M9. The proposal would change this problem, but this is a conversation for another thread at another time.

I'd love to read your paper. Please do start a thread about it.

[cory]

My question was how many riflemen are issued a pistol? Not how many Marines.

Since you were talking about riflemen having a pistol, I took that to mean those individuals for whom a rifle/carbine is their primary weapon, not every Marine/Soldier.


I'd love to read your paper. Please do start a thread about it.

Sorry I should have been more specific. I was referring to a Marine Corps Infantry Unit, at least in my experience.

Once I get it to publish ready maturity, I'll certainly post a copy here.

[LRRPF52]

Still talking pistols in a SAW replacement thread....