HOWA Grendel 6.5 Out of the Box, Early Impressions

[LRRPF52]

No complaints here. Just glad to see your support. Those of us who have all our unique wants will pull barrels and get custom stocks until we have exactly what we want.

I'm thinking about a micro M40 clone.

[Matt @ LSI]

No complaints here. Just glad to see your support. Those of us who have all our unique wants will pull barrels and get custom stocks until we have exactly what we want.

I'm thinking about a micro M40 clone.

+1 for this! impossible to please everyone, although we try!

[JASmith]

No complaints here. Just glad to see your support. Those of us who have all our unique wants will pull barrels and get custom stocks until we have exactly what we want.

I'm thinking about a micro M40 clone.

How easy is changing the barrel for thie average Joe?

[bwaites]

How easy is changing the barrel for thie average Joe?

Not, Howa utilizes a metric thread that many gunsmiths can't replicate easily. I had to send my 7mm out of state to have it rebarreled. Of course the new action might be different. In talking with gunsmiths in my area, they all simply said it wasn't worth their effort. Interestingly, one also shared that truing and blue printing a Howa was a ripoff for the customer, since he had NEVER seen one that wasn't square from the factory. I asked a couple others and they said essentially the same thing, while admitting that they had taken the work when customers insisted.

[Matt @ LSI]

Not, Howa utilizes a metric thread that many gunsmiths can't replicate easily. I had to send my 7mm out of state to have it rebarreled. Of course the new action might be different. In talking with gunsmiths in my area, they all simply said it wasn't worth their effort. Interestingly, one also shared that truing and blue printing a Howa was a ripoff for the customer, since he had NEVER seen one that wasn't square from the factory. I asked a couple others and they said essentially the same thing, while admitting that they had taken the work when customers insisted.

the whole metric threading this is a big mystery to me. its a metric thread....its still the same process, just different thread pitch. how a gunsmith would scoff at re barreling one is beyond me. over the years, we have heard manyh of the same remarks to having a Howa blue printed, Howa quality is a big step above the rest.

[JASmith]

Thanks!

I had a faint glimmer of hope that the rifle has a quick-change barrel option similar to the Savage 110 / 10 series.

[bwaites]

the whole metric threading this is a big mystery to me. its a metric thread....its still the same process, just different thread pitch. how a gunsmith would scoff at re barreling one is beyond me. over the years, we have heard manyh of the same remarks to having a Howa blue printed, Howa quality is a big step above the rest.

I think that the biggest issue is a vast majority of gunsmiths have equipment manufactured before metric threading was common, and so it's a pain to switch their machines over. Newer machines, it's not such an issue. One told me that it's a metric thread, but that the actual angle of the threading was such that he couldn't even make his machine do it. I'm not a machinist, so I'm not sure I completely understood what he was getting at, but it wasn't just the thread density per cm, but the actual angle that the thread presented at.

[kmon]

Have a Gunsmith friend that has no issues working with Howa actions. Uses CNC equipment so once he has the programming for one can duplicate it easy. He keeps some long barrels without taper in stock and will turn them to what ever contour you want and put together a fine rifle.

His website could use a little work but the man knows what he is doing on rifles. When I was looking for a Smith to do a Grendel conversion on a CZ 527, he was the only one I found in Texas that would do the work, most complained about metric threads and about how difficult Howa barrels are to remove, he just said sure no problem. Link to his website http://www.liveoakaccuracy.com/

[adamjp]

the whole metric threading this is a big mystery to me. its a metric thread....its still the same process, just different thread pitch. how a gunsmith would scoff at re barreling one is beyond me. over the years, we have heard manyh of the same remarks to having a Howa blue printed, Howa quality is a big step above the rest.

Agreed. The hardest part about barrelling a Howa is getting the factory barrel OUT. I don't know how big the gorilla is that tightens them, but he knows how to make 'em tight!

FWIW the thread on Howa SA and LA action is 26x1.5mm. A simple metric thread which is almost, but not quite the same as the Remington 700 1&1/16x16tpi (26.9875x1.5875mm).

It looks to me that the Howa MA would have a thread about 22x1.5mm size, coincidentally the same as the Zastava m85. Howa action screws are M6, or 6x1.0mm.

I know the USA has persisted with a love of old imperial measurements, but truthfully it is an awful system and once you work in metric you find it hard to go back. Any modern machining tool will be built to work either way, with most CNC products built to work in metric (with conversion to imperial as necessary). Find a competent gunsmith who speaks metric, even in the USA that shouldn't be impossible.

[ricsmall]

I agree with Adamjp on the threads and gorilla. Apparently Remington hired his brother! I was pulling a barrel on a brand new 700 that took two days of kroil soaking,moderate heat, a 240 lb gorilla on action wrench and me, another 200 lbs holding the bench down to break free! Hardest one I've seen so far. Nothing to the metric threads,same machine that does imperial, just switch the necessary gears and little different method, depending on machine.

Richard

[adamjp]

If the barrel is shot-out the quickest approach is a relief cut in the barrel immediately in front of the action. This takes the pressure off the joint and allows an ordinary action wrench to do the job.

[sneaky one]

Bill, price ?

[kmon]

Do not know the price on the Grendels but looked at a 223 yesterday at Cabela's for $499.99. It was the light weight basic black version. That price is for the current sale regular price from them is $599.99

[bwaites]

I'm guessing but I would bet street price will be in the $600 range.

[Matt @ LSI]

Price for the Grendel's will be the same as all other mini actions

[wog13]

good afternoon did we ever get a range report on how this shot ? i am looking forward to arrival on this rifle thanks

[Rust]

The issue with the barrel threading for US based smiths is in how (mechanical) lathes cut threads. There's a series of gears that are linked both to the spindle/chuck, and to the lead screw, which drives the carriage with the cutting tool. The different gears control how far the carriage feeds with each revolution, which in turn works out how many threads per inch you're cutting. Since the gears each feed at a rate which is fixed by the number of teeth and size of the gear, you're limited to the thread pitches you can cut by the specific gears in your machine.
In order to change from inch to metric you need to A: have the appropriate metric gears, and B: swap them into/out of your lathe in order to cut the threads. Most gunsmiths either will not have the gears, or don't want to be troubled with the huge hassle of setting up for a one off job.
A CNC machine generally uses magnets to reference its position and spindle speeds, with independent drives for each moving part of the machine. While this in very versatile in that it can cut virtually any pattern you can imagine (and program), it can also be a pain in the butt to do a one off job. For instance the CNC lathe at the shop I work in can thread any pattern I want it to, but in order for it to do it I have to write a program for it, set all the tools up, test it, and finally run it. With a mechanical lathe I can just slap the correct tooling in the quick change tool post, touch off on the part, set feeds and speeds and be making chips in a matter of minutes. Between the faster set up, and huge cost of a CNC big enough to do barrel work, mechanical lathes are more practical for a gunsmith to have in their shop.


But onto what really matters, how does it shoot?

[bwaites]

I've completed the barrel break in as required by Howa. If the weather holds, I'll have a range report later in the week, (maybe a preliminary late tonite!).

[Rebels010]

Any update? Patiently waiting...

[bwaites]

Ok, sorry to not have posted so far. I will have a new post later tonite. I needed to check on a few things.