More reason then ever to Keep and Bear Arms

[cory]

Last week's shooting was done by a US citizen and his fiancé. Should we nuke San Bernardino?

No not all. However, if Russia dropped a couple of tactical nukes in the middle east (ISIS, Taliban, Al Qaeda etc Strongholds). I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

[JASmith]

LRRPF52 is right, it is time to close this thread.

I am seriously disappointed that a staunchly contrarian position so often poisons polite discourse and the opportunity to arrive at a negotiatied conclusion.

The issues and concerns voiced are real even though possibly out of proportion with the true threat. Nonetheless, dismissing them with trite phrases and psuedo logic is an insult to our intelligence.

Too many of us have had first hand experience overseas with with the results of what today is described as jihadism but had other labels like Nazism and Communism in earlier times. Allowing those movements to grow without serious push back cost us dearly and indeed resulted in serious problems here in the States.

[NugginFutz]

One thing that I have noticed about Stan over the years is that if there are any loose ends in your argument or reasoning, he's going to see them right away and bring them into the light.

He makes for a very good civil debating partner/"opponent", if you will, especially when it comes to the technical side of things.

If you're looking for another torch-bearer who will immediately grab your argument and run with it, he's going to disappoint you.

If you're prepared for some insightful perspective that might not be what you want to hear, then Stan's the type who can throw cold water on your fire before you get it going, with clearly-worded reasons why he disagrees.

I'm not saying I agree with him blindly, but he has been a good sounding board for ideas if you want dispassionate reasoning.

Well said, lrrpf52. Discussions with the likes of Stan can be described as follows:

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another." ~Prov 27:17

[stanc]

No not all. However, if Russia dropped a couple of tactical nukes in the middle east (ISIS, Taliban, Al Qaeda etc Strongholds). I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

Nor would I. But, Drift was talking about retaliation. How do we retaliate when the terrorist is an American?

[stanc]

LRRPF52 is right, it is time to close this thread.

He didn't say that.

[cory]

http://www.allenbwest.com/2015/12/muslim...in-common/

We're at war with islam whether we want to accept it or not. We want to believe that they're just like us. They want to live in peace, earn a living and raise a family and hopefully do some good for our common man on this journey we call life. However, if you'll do away with the notion that they think like us and let the data take you to its conclusion you'll see the truth is much worse than most will say aloud.

To be a Christian is to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, as to be a muslim is to follow the teachings of Muhammed. If you actually read the teachings of Muhammed you’ll see that living in peace with non-believers is not muslim like at all. Jesus taught love thy neighbor while muhammed taught slaughter of non-believers or their enslavement.
Are all muslims evil, do all muslims want to kill you? Of course not that is as ridiculous as calling it the religion of peace. I’m sure a large percentage doesn’t hate anyone because they are a non-believer nor do they want to do them harm. I’m sure they want to live in peace with us. They must be incredibly torn with these feelings while reading their koran teaches otherwise. I wonder how many find solitude through supporting those who do allah’s work that muhammed teaches whether financially or otherwise.

I struggle with this. I understand it, but how do we go about fighting it without compromising our rights and watching the government's power grow.

I just listened to some yahoo on the kelley show screaming about how the government refuses to make it illegal for those who are on a terrorist watch list to buy a gun. That sounds perfectly logical if you refuse to actually think about it. Who decides who goes onto a terrorist watch list? What is that process? Do we give up our Right to due process to FEEL SAFE?

Do we make it illegal for Muslims to buy guns? We could give the government this power to "keep us safe". Now if the government has the power to deny an individual their Rights based on their religion they certainly have the power to deny us our rights based on our religion.

Do we finally accept that coexisting with people who’s metric for success is our annihilation, is self-imposed genocide? I fully accept this; however, how do we respond to this conclusion. Do we ban the koran? Do we round up muslims and deport them? Once we go down this road there is no turning back. We would have to burn the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence in this process. I’ll spend the rest of my life fighting those who wish to do me and mine harm. However I will not sacrifice my future children’s, my loved ones or my Rights, not any small amount!!!!
At the end of the day I know that the bigger threat is a government with limitless power. Throughout history, no entity has done more damage to individuals than a government with too much power.

I’ll take my chances arming myself to defend against terrorist, savages, lunatics, thugs, etc before I find myself disarmed and defending myself/my family against a government.

The only response to terrorism where we win is to take our safety into our own hands and stop expecting the government to do it for us.

Arm yourselves!
Train yourselves!
Keep your head on a swivel!

Remember A is A. The facts are not hateful, racist, self-serving, or righteous. They are simply the facts, don’t let anyone convince you otherwise.

[montana]

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/...U.facebook

They do not have a good history playing with others!

[Rainman]

Some good thoughts expressed and nice to see few here are drinking the obama coolaid. After seven years at the helm obama is still flopping around like a fish out of water on virtually all issues and his only successes have been in deflecting attention away from critical issues he does not want to be criticized for or deal with. Having observed political processes through out the world since my university days in the mid 1960s it is quite apparent to me that there would be no Syrian refugee camps if the Syrian citizenry had not been disarmed by their government some 50 plus years ago. The same principal applies to just about every other political refugee situation and will apply here as well if we let it happen. Whether you agree with everything the NRA does or says, or not, thank God we have them to provide some leadership direction for freedom.

[LRRPF52]

I thought this was funny:

[stanc]

<chuckle> That is rather funny.

[stanc]

The only response to terrorism where we win is to take our safety into our own hands and stop expecting the government to do it for us.

Arm yourselves!
Train yourselves!
Keep your head on a swivel!

Unfortunately, that will only work at the very lowest, tactical level: The individual citizen. And even then, it is defensive combat, reacting to an attack.

To win requires seeking out and destroying the enemy, preferably before he can strike. That entails collecting intel, strategic planning, and offensive operations, all of which are beyond the capabilities of the individual. Of necessity, they must be done by the government.

[LR1955]

Some good thoughts expressed and nice to see few here are drinking the obama coolaid. After seven years at the helm obama is still flopping around like a fish out of water on virtually all issues and his only successes have been in deflecting attention away from critical issues he does not want to be criticized for or deal with. Having observed political processes through out the world since my university days in the mid 1960s it is quite apparent to me that there would be no Syrian refugee camps if the Syrian citizenry had not been disarmed by their government some 50 plus years ago. The same principal applies to just about every other political refugee situation and will apply here as well if we let it happen. Whether you agree with everything the NRA does or says, or not, thank God we have them to provide some leadership direction for freedom.

RM:

Having read this entire thread a couple of times, I see no one who even remotely appears to be supporting Obama or reflecting his views.

How about referencing a post where you think someone is supporting, endorsing, or even reflecting the views of Obama.

And if they are, you may need to be pretty specific in terms of the statement or statements.

LR55

[JASmith]

Unfortunately, that will only work at the very lowest, tactical level: The individual citizen. And even then, it is defensive combat, reacting to an attack.

To win requires seeking out and destroying the enemy, preferably before he can strike. That entails collecting intel, strategic planning, and offensive operations, all of which are beyond the capabilities of the individual. Of necessity, they must be done by the government.

Good points.

I submit, however, that expecting the government "to do it all" as implied here is a sure path to disaster with respect to individual safety and freedom.

Our surest path to success is through the armed citizen providing deterrence to excessive mayhem at home and the government taking appropriately aggressive domestic law enforcement measures and putting serious hurt on organized parties overseas.

[ah1whiskey]

don't worry obama, hillary and the socialist-crats are busting their chops to keep americans safe--and are working to rid us of our dangerous guns right now--

just look how safe nazi germany was after they took up all the firearms--

oh yea north korea-- you safe from you own guns there too-- LOL

sure hillary and obama we want to be more like north korea or cuba-- sure--lol

[montana]

The problem is not muslims, tyrannical governments, or criminals, it is leftist who at some poit in their lives will fly off the edge and kill people if they have easy access to firearms. Listen at the 4:00 minute mark, unbelievable!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AokCIPiuRpM

This is the kind of cr*p students are going into debt for. I would demand a refund.

[stanc]

Good points.

I submit, however, that expecting the government "to do it all" as implied here is a sure path to disaster with respect to individual safety and freedom.

I implied no such thing, Joe. I said that what the individual can do in defeating terrorists is quite limited, and there are tasks which only the government can (and should) handle.

I most definitely did not say, or even imply, that the individual should depend upon government to provide for personal safety.

[LRRPF52]

To the topic of the 2A and this incident, as well as the one in France.

Notice the target selection. Places where guns are not allowed, or what I call "Gun Spree Zones". Soft targets with high population density are perfect for savage vermin like this, who are looking to create the maximum body count.

So there is something you can do just by being armed and trained. Here in Utah, teachers and other employees carry concealed on school campus. Many instructors provide free training for them.

In CA, they would stroke out at the suggestion.

[customcutter]

Here in Fl schools are gun free zones. They are trying to pass legislation that CCW can carry on college campuses. My wife is a Data Processing Clerk in an elementary school, we both have our CCW, but like I said she's not allowed to carry. I told her to keep a can of wasp spray in her desk at all times. Her desk is the first desk in the office that visitors pass. I've heard it's as effective as pepper spray and will spray 30 feet, better than nothing I hope.

[Drift]

You guys do know she was a Pharmacist right? And pharmacist do a lot more than count out pills. They compound and supply IV drugs to Nursing Homes and and surgical and cancer centers centers. No one knows how may thousands of medications she could have adulterated (with you name it) before she went active. Think of it... if she only adulterated 1000 IV prescriptions with heavy metals or mersa or hiv a day for 3 weeks before going tactical, the killing of soft targets could have just begun. It could get worse than the 9/11 attacks .
Or maybe not.
Maybe she wasn't trying to kill as many Americans as possible. Maybe she wasn't going for soft targets. Maybe she just wanted to do it the hard way and then go out in blaze of glory.
Maybe we can trust all the Pharmacist from "over there" who are working here now to not kill our family's with bad drugs
Me, I'm going to look at pharmacists harder before I but anything they give me into my body

[stanc]

My wife is a Data Processing Clerk in an elementary school, we both have our CCW, but like I said she's not allowed to carry. I told her to keep a can of wasp spray in her desk at all times. I've heard it's as effective as pepper spray and will spray 30 feet, better than nothing I hope.

Egads! That's a chemical weapon/nerve agent. She'll be in violation of the Geneva Conventions. :eek:

Kidding aside, there is this to consider:

"Many jurisdictions specifically prohibit the use of any self-defense sprays other than pepper spray. (Additionally, most spray insecticide containers include warnings stating that 'It is a violation of federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling.')" http://www.snopes.com/crime/prevent/waspspray.asp