More reason then ever to Keep and Bear Arms

[LRRPF52]

If just one person in that room had been carrying a concealed firearm, and was trained well, this could have been an entirely different outcome, like we saw in Texas. In the Utah State Legislature, 85% of the members have their Utah CFP.

As to the accidental death statistics, they are accidents, not a centuries-long military campaign from savages specifically targeting anyone who doesn't submit to their way of debased misery and even genocidal murder campaign within.

[stanc]

Statistically a driver with a smart phone texting is much more of a threat than a terrorist with a gun to all of us that live and drive in the US. Some 1500 people die every day directly tied to texting rather than terrorism that killed 14 a few days back.

I'm old and probably missing something here, but in my day to day life I've yet to be threatened by terrorism...

Yup. Very, very few people (less than 0.0001% of the population) have actually been the victims of mass shootings by Jihadists in this country.

...except on the news which brings up my question; How much does media hype drive public reactions...

Quite a lot, I'm sure. Whenever such an incident occurs, there is a media frenzy in covering it.

[stanc]

Many years ago I (along with countless other people) had similar concerns, and did the same sort of things. Except back then we were called survivalists.

All that time and money spent proved to be for naught...

I beg to differ stanc.

WWIII never happened. The government never became a tyrannical dictatorship. The economy never underwent a catastrophic collapse. None of the feared events ever occurred.

[montana]

WWIII never happened. The government never became a tyrannical dictatorship. The economy never underwent a catastrophic collapse. None of the feared events ever occurred.

Stanc you sound like an Obama supporter, The world is just peachy and not in turmoil, the economy is sound, Obama's executive orders and immigration policies, and attorney generals actions are all constitutional and just. The monetary and banking policies are run legally and morally as is our tax code enforced by the IRS. My point was being a survivalist or what ever you wish to call it wasn't a waste of time if applied to every day life, not as a nut waiting for the end of the world afraid to live his or hers life. Being prepared can help in other ways not at first realized. Like I said, each to their own.

[customcutter]

:confused: Apparently you don't see the contradiction in those two sentences.

The vast majority of mass shootings in this country have been done by non-Muslims. Shouldn't we thoroughly vet everybody who wants to own firearms?

No stanc, I've never had contradictory feelings about a deeply held conviction.

As a Christian, I know it's a sin to kill. However, I was the one who told the Surgeon to take my Grandmother off of life support. Try wrapping your brain around that one for a while. I'm glad your life is so black and white and you've never had to explore any of the "grey" area's that some of us find our selves in.

No just the ones that think if I don't want to join their Religion or Cult then they are endowed by their Creator to end my life.

I noticed you don't have any solutions, just oppose anyone else's thoughts on the matter.

[stanc]

No stanc, I've never had contradictory feelings about a deeply held conviction.

You said you wanted to ban Muslims from owning guns, then followed that statement by saying self defense is a God given right. I can't imagine by what thought process you think that isn't contradictory.

As a Christian, I know it's a sin to kill. However, I was the one who told the Surgeon to take my Grandmother off of life support. Try wrapping your brain around that one for a while. I'm glad your life is so black and white and you've never had to explore any of the "grey" area's that some of us find our selves in.

Irrational statement. I said nothing to that effect.

I noticed you don't have any solutions, just oppose anyone else's thoughts on the matter.

I oppose hypocrisy and double standards, that's true.

[stanc]

Stanc you sound like an Obama supporter, The world is just peachy and not in turmoil, the economy is sound, Obama's executive orders and immigration policies, and attorney generals actions are all constitutional and just. The monetary and banking policies are run legally and morally as is our tax code enforced by the IRS.

Jeez. I'm continually astounded by people who, when I write A+B=C, they somehow read it as X-Y=Z.

[lawndartmike]

Wow! Has my life just been simplified!! If we are going by statistics.....

Low chance of a car fire - throw out the extinguisher from the car!
Low chance of home invasion - don't need the pistol on my nightstand!
Low chance of being mugged in Oregon - don't have to concealed carry!
Low chance of my house burning down - who needs pesky insurance!
Low chance of getting a flat tire - haven't had a flat tire in over 20 years - who needs a spare!
Low chance on being attacked by a badger - get rid of the badger repellent!

Funny how statistics didn't help the .0001% of the population be prepared enough for the terrorist attack...

[ah1whiskey]

i know an obama supporter-- he is still waiting for that free phone they promised him in 08!

[LRRPF52]

Guys, let's keep it civil. This is why these discussion were removed from the forum before. I'll just lock the thread if it gets out of hand anymore.

We're all naturally going to have strong feelings about this, but there is no room for calling people out, making assumptions about who they support politically.

We actually have a wider range of political demographics on the forum than many people might suspect, and we have been able to behave pretty well, despite those differences.

At the end of the day, I'm your neighbor first, and I will give the shirt off my back, or even my life to protect you and your family if warranted. We should keep in mind that political parties are excellent at dividing men, rather than bringing them together.

[stanc]

Funny how statistics didn't help the .0001% of the population be prepared enough for the terrorist attack...

Poor reading comprehension. I didn't say to not be prepared. I said the odds are it'll never happen to the vast majority of people.

[stanc]

Guys, let's keep it civil. This is why these discussion were removed from the forum before. I'll just lock the thread if it gets out of hand anymore.

We're all naturally going to have strong feelings about this, but there is no room for calling people out, making assumptions about who they support politically.

It doesn't bother me to be "called out," Paul. For those who think I'm an Obama supporter, I'm not. But, neither do I see him as any worse than previous Presidents. Remember, it was Republicans (Reagan and Bush) who gave us the bans on machine guns and assault rifle importation.

[montana]

Jeez. I'm continually astounded by people who, when I write A+B=C, they somehow read it as X-Y=Z.

You may have a point, that is exactly what my wife tells me. I apologize if you thought I was being critical stanc. I meant it in a light way not a serious critical way. Twenty lashes to me. My apologies again.

[lawndartmike]

Perhaps you should explain yourself better. To me, you were implying that there is no reason to be prepared for something that will probably (statistically) never happen to me.

[customcutter]

You said you wanted to ban Muslims from owning guns, then followed that statement by saying self defense is a God given right. I can't imagine by what thought process you think that isn't contradictory.

Irrational statement. I said nothing to that effect.

I oppose hypocrisy and double standards, that's true.

I also made the statement that Muslims wanting to own guns in the US should be vetted. We are at war with terrorist.

I was simply making the point that you made the point that my statement was contradictory. Obviously you've never had mixed emotions about something. It's a completely rational statement, you just don't consider it rational. So therefore it doesn't fit your requirments.

Yes, we all do. I'm sure you've never been a hypocrite or had a double standard. There are only so many perfect people in this world. I don't think you are one of them either.

Have a blessed evening Stan. I know this isn't the real you.

[LRRPF52]

One thing that I have noticed about Stan over the years is that if there are any loose ends in your argument or reasoning, he's going to see them right away and bring them into the light.

He makes for a very good civil debating partner/"opponent", if you will, especially when it comes to the technical side of things.

If you're looking for another torch-bearer who will immediately grab your argument and run with it, he's going to disappoint you.

If you're prepared for some insightful perspective that might not be what you want to hear, then Stan's the type who can throw cold water on your fire before you get it going, with clearly-worded reasons why he disagrees.

I'm not saying I agree with him blindly, but he has been a good sounding board for ideas if you want dispassionate reasoning.

[stanc]

You may have a point, that is exactly what my wife tells me. I apologize if you thought I was being critical stanc. I meant it in a light way not a serious critical way. Twenty lashes to me. My apologies again.

No apologies necessary, montana. No offense was taken.

Perhaps you should explain yourself better. To me, you were implying that there is no reason to be prepared for something that will probably (statistically) never happen to me.

Actually, that's pretty close to what I did mean, except change "no reason to be prepared" to "no great need to be prepared."

There is a valid reason to prepare, but odds are that -- armed or not -- you will never be shot at by a terrorist in this country.

I'm sure you've never been a hypocrite or had a double standard. There are only so many perfect people in this world. I don't think you are one of them either.

Don't be absurd. Of course I'm prefekt.

Have a blessed evening Stan. I know this isn't the real you.

Yeah, it's pretty much me. Just ask anyone here.

One thing that I have noticed about Stan over the years is that if there are any loose ends in your argument or reasoning, he's going to see them right away and bring them into the light.

Yes, and I undeniably go overboard with it at times. A character flaw that I've been only partially successful in overcoming. :o

[LR1955]

I also made the statement that Muslims wanting to own guns in the US should be vetted. We are at war with terrorist.

I was simply making the point that you made the point that my statement was contradictory. Obviously you've never had mixed emotions about something. It's a completely rational statement, you just don't consider it rational. So therefore it doesn't fit your requirments.

Yes, we all do. I'm sure you've never been a hypocrite or had a double standard. There are only so many perfect people in this world. I don't think you are one of them either.

Have a blessed evening Stan. I know this isn't the real you.

CC:

So, you think that someone needs to prove what their religion is before being able to buy a firearm? And if they are Muslim, that they should receive more scrutiny than a person of another religion?

And, what you are reading is the 'real Stan'.

LR55

[Drift]

I remember reading all of Robert Heinliens books. They were written @ a time when an attack apon the US would be met with massive retalitation- such an attack would have been unthinkable. I think we are now in a time better described by Tom Kratman in his book Caliphate (with this country taking the place of Europe). It's a good read and free on Baen Books free library.
Still some of us can see the canary in the coal mine...some so blind they just will not see.

[stanc]

I remember reading all of Robert Heinliens books. They were written @ a time when an attack apon the US would be met with massive retalitation...

Last week's shooting was done by a US citizen and his fiancé. Should we nuke San Bernardino?