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I've spend the last week or so reading and reading about chambers for the grendel. There are just a handful of barrel makers out there that I can tell. The following list is not just SAAMI, includes .264lbc.
Kreiger
Bartlein
Lilja (confirmed SAAMI?)
Brownells (Saturn?)
Black Hole Weaponry (confirmed LBC me thinks)
DEZ (?)
Sabre (some leftovers out there)
I'm sure there might be others but this is what I have book marks for through my searches. So as much as I'd like to have a SAAMI chamber I am highly drawn to BHW barrels plus they're on sale right now making it even more attractive. I believe I read on here that Lilja is confirmed to use the SAAMI chamber. I believe most of the barrels out there are just "Grendel II" which we know isn't SAAMI. I went on Pacific Tool and they have three reamers called Grendel. There is "Grendel", "Grendel SAAMI", and "Grendel II (better than SAAMI)". The "Grendel" picture (if accurate representation) looks nothing like the other two. Of course the other two have no measurements listed.
I had emailed BHW and they say their reamer says both. So I assume that if it's SAAMI it wouldn't say .264LBC also. Plus they are selling it as .264lbc. So as close as I am to putting in an order while thy are 20% off, I am hesitant. I can get exactly what I want (except the SAAMI) cerakoted for $240. That's half the price of a bare SS Lilja (read wanting to Cerakote also) so you can see where I'm coming from maybe. I doubt I'd shoot lighter rounds and if I'm limited to what the chamber was designed to shoot then so be it. I will be reloading this in the future.
If there's a reputable barrel maker out that that I can get reasonable accuracy out of that doesn't cost $500+ and a bolt, I'd be a happy guy. If that is a unrealistic desire in also wanting a SAAMI chamber then I guess I'll just have to spend the extra money.
What says the horde? Am I chasing my tale looking for a nice deal on a SAAMI chamber? I know I can just go buy an upper from AA but I want to build it with certain parts because I can.
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If they're using a Manson Reamer, there's 99% chance they're true SAAMI. Just ask them to make sure they do when you buy the barrel.
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I think you will have to spend more to get the SAAMI chamber right now. Brownells and BHW will not have it, and Sabre barrels are almost non-existent unless you buy used. Shilen is probably your best bet and they come with a bolt, but I have not seen anyone on the forum lately that did not have the DCM version bought from Midway. Mark at PF may be able to help you.
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I emailed Mark at PF. I find this chamber variant BS highly annoying. It seems the SAAMI chamber barrel makers are outnumbered by Grendel variant barrel makers. Screw it, what's $200 right? I'm about to refinance my house and that will be a month's savings right there. : )
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Red X has Grendel uppers right now. Pretty cheap too. They appear to be non-SAAMI chambers though. Plus their only 14.5 and 16" models. I'm just waiting to hear from PF about options other than those listed on the site. I'm still very tempted to say "f it" and buy the BHW chambered for a AA bolt. I don't forsee me shooting light bullets or super heavy. If it fits in a mag that's what I'll buy and reload for....not sure if that's too much of a simplistic way to view this all.
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01-20-2015, 05:41 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-20-2015, 05:44 PM by jurassic.)
Several on here have had the Sabre barrels and not had any problems, why would you think they are not SAAMI chambers? I don't remember seeing anything in the description stating otherwise. Also those barrels are more than a few years old.
The upper is probably the cheapest way to get into a Grendel unless someone gives one to you.
I stand corrected.... the description says Grendel II. I don't remember seeing that when I bought the barrel last year.
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smokinghole Wrote:Red X has Grendel uppers right now. Pretty cheap too. They appear to be non-SAAMI chambers though. Plus their only 14.5 and 16" models. I'm just waiting to hear from PF about options other than those listed on the site. I'm still very tempted to say "f it" and buy the BHW chambered for a AA bolt. I don't forsee me shooting light bullets or super heavy. If it fits in a mag that's what I'll buy and reload for....not sure if that's too much of a simplistic way to view this all.
The description says Grendel II for the barrel, but it may mean the bolt type.
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Yep. I was thinking that but want ti be sure. I am not looking for cheapest but a good balance of affordability and function. Though I am also very tempted by the redx deal.
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jurassic Wrote:The description says Grendel II for the barrel, but it may mean the bolt type.
No Grendel II is a designation Satern uses for a chamber that is NOT SAAMI Spec.
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smokinghole Wrote:I emailed Mark at PF. I find this chamber variant BS highly annoying. It seems the SAAMI chamber barrel makers are outnumbered by Grendel variant barrel makers. Screw it, what's $200 right? I'm about to refinance my house and that will be a month's savings right there. : )
In rack grade barrels it seems this is true. However, the SAAMI Chamber is still king in the Match Grade barrels.
AA, PF, Lilja, JP (I think), etc....
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This cloudy chamber BS might just drive me towards another caliber completely. I didnt think buying a barrel woukd be so difficult nor so expensive compared to other calibers. Sure they dont have the distance or performance that drew me to the grendel but I will not likely be fortunate enough to stretch this caliber's legs in my area.
Depending on what I hear from Mark this desire to build a grendel AR may be dead in the water for a while.
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so what is my Bartlein barrel from PF. SAAMI are what . And help me to under stand what the difference is ? I hope it is not shit
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I'd consider a BHW barrel if it weren't for the fact that they head space to a .125 bolt. I've never inquired if they'd head space to .136 if I provided the bolt.
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biodsl Wrote:I'd consider a BHW barrel if it weren't for the fact that they head space to a .125 bolt. I've never inquired if they'd head space to .136 if I provided the bolt.
They do, indeed.
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chase Wrote:so what is my Bartlein barrel from PF. SAAMI are what . And help me to under stand what the difference is ? I hope it is not shit
If its from Precision Firearms it most likely is SAAMI, call Mark and ask?
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chase Wrote:so what is my Bartlein barrel from PF. SAAMI are what . And help me to under stand what the difference is ? I hope it is not shit
If its from Precision Firearms it most likely is SAAMI, call Mark and ask?
You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live. - John Galt
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smokinghole Wrote:This cloudy chamber BS might just drive me towards another caliber completely. I didnt think buying a barrel woukd be so difficult nor so expensive compared to other calibers. Sure they dont have the distance or performance that drew me to the grendel but I will not likely be fortunate enough to stretch this caliber's legs in my area.
Depending on what I hear from Mark this desire to build a grendel AR may be dead in the water for a while.
Mark builds great Grendels!
You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live. - John Galt
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01-21-2015, 07:18 AM
(This post was last modified: 02-06-2015, 07:38 PM by LRRPF52.)
smokinghole Wrote:This cloudy chamber BS might just drive me towards another caliber completely. I didnt think buying a barrel woukd be so difficult nor so expensive compared to other calibers. Sure they dont have the distance or performance that drew me to the grendel but I will not likely be fortunate enough to stretch this caliber's legs in my area.
Depending on what I hear from Mark this desire to build a grendel AR may be dead in the water for a while.
Every manufacturer has to deal with holding the reamer to a consistent spec on any caliber, especially in AR15's and AR10's that are being expected to shoot accurately. Any mag-fed rifle, for that matter, needs a certain throat design so you don't end up with too much jump to the lands.
I'm not sure where the perception of higher prices for the caliber is coming from. Lilja barrels cost what they do in any caliber, as do JP. Barrel quality, type, and features will drive the prices, not what reamer they used.
High-end barrels that shoot really well cost more. The cloudiness you see is something I and many others deal with on a regular basis with .308, .223, .260 Rem, .300 Win Mag, or any other caliber because certain critical components for manufacturing can be all over the map when comparing them to what the customer asked for.
Across the industry, especially in AR10's, we are seeing colossal abortions of chamber jobs, where cartridges will not even fit into chambers right off the bat. There simply is no way the barrels were made correctly. Guys are trying to piece together .308 AR's, and can't even chamber a round.
A lot of barrels will jam bullets into the rifling, so the bullet gets pulled if you try to clear the action, and powder dumps all over. It's just the way the industry has evolved. People want instant gratification, at the cheapest prices, with sub-MOA results, and now. Much of the media out there basically tells them they can expect this. You can have:
* Cheap
* Fast
* Quality
Pick one. I can tell you right now that Mark uses a SAAMI spec reamer on his 6.5 Grendel line, and he will make it with the reamer concentric to the bore, with true and concentric threads. His barrels, when mounted in a square and tight upper, will and have shot 1/2 MOA for me and other customers, even from lightweight builds, with quality ammunition that has tight ES.
One customer reported back that he's getting 1" 5rd groups at 200yds, and one of those rounds is opening the group to 1". The other 4 are all touching. To make a barrel like that takes attention to detail, patience, and know-how.
You will have the same battle to deal with in another caliber. Been there, done that, continue to see it. Pick a known quality machinist, barrel smith, rifle-builder, and pay him what he deserves, or settle for less. That's what it comes down to.
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For the Record, Precision Firearms uses only Grendel SAAMI Chambers. For all barrels types that we chamber, Bartlein, Krieger, Lilja. We also only use Grendel Bolts with .136 Bolt face. Any other bolt face is NOT a GRENDEL BOLT. Type I as it is known, is a 7.62x39 Bolt. Type 1 and Type 2 was named as such by BHW.
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cory Wrote:No Grendel II is a designation Satern uses for a chamber that is NOT SAAMI Spec.
True, but when did Sabre stop making these barrels? Was'nt it well before the Grendel II designation came into play. I'm guessing they mean a type II bolt. JMO, but the Sabre barrel I just sold was most definitely not a GII chamber.
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