Who actually uses the SAAMI reamer on AR barrels?

[smokinghole]

I'm not a coolaid drinker. I ended up here and looking on three other forums about information about this cartridge. I ended up here thinking it'd have the most information but I quickly began to realize that this forum generally is a fan of a specific chamber design over it just being a cartridge. It was the performance numbers of a bullet and cartridge combo that attracted me to this round not a throat design. Then due to the massive amount of bickering on both sides of the issue I almost said "screw the grendel" plus my modest budget had an influence.

I for the life of me cannot understand why a chamber design needs to be protected and celebrated. There are swiss army knives out there with 100 things on the knife. Sure sometimes the screw driver on the knife is convenient but there are times you would much rather a real screw driver. Sure the magnifying glass is possibly convenient but a real magnifying glass would be better, and so on. Just because something was designed a certain way at a certain time for certain reasons doesn't mean it always has to be that way. Improvements on products can be an advancement to a more complicated design or a more simple design, it happens both ways. Sometimes an "improvement" isn't viewed as an improvement to everyone and that's fine. I'm not saying the compound throat is anything good or bad to me, I just didn't buy one because I got a deal on something else.

[PigOPs]

I'm not a coolaid drinker. I ended up here and looking on three other forums about information about this cartridge. I ended up here thinking it'd have the most information but I quickly began to realize that this forum generally is a fan of a specific chamber design over it just being a cartridge. It was the performance numbers of a bullet and cartridge combo that attracted me to this round not a throat design. Then due to the massive amount of bickering on both sides of the issue I almost said "screw the grendel" plus my modest budget had an influence.

I for the life of me cannot understand why a chamber design needs to be protected and celebrated. There are swiss army knives out there with 100 things on the knife. Sure sometimes the screw driver on the knife is convenient but there are times you would much rather a real screw driver. Sure the magnifying glass is possibly convenient but a real magnifying glass would be better, and so on. Just because something was designed a certain way at a certain time for certain reasons doesn't mean it always has to be that way. Improvements on products can be an advancement to a more complicated design or a more simple design, it happens both ways. Sometimes an "improvement" isn't viewed as an improvement to everyone and that's fine. I'm not saying the compound throat is anything good or bad to me, I just didn't buy one because I got a deal on something else.

I've read back through this to see what has you in such a tizzy... A few people explained to you why THEY stay with the SAAMI chamber but there seem to be more that say they shoot both or that they've had both in the past. The LBC is a fine chamber and you will be happy. Chill out man, no need to justify your decision. You got a great deal on a great barrel.

[LRRPF52]

If this group is okay with non-SAAMI chambers I would expect to see more referrals to new people looking to build to more cost effective options. Instead because there are no sub $400 saami options people seem to be guided to $700-$800 barrels. Thats great if you guys have the passion/dedication to drop the coin on that steel. I am a professional brewer at the moment, means average labor wages in manufacturing. So without means I am trying to build a decent rifle but sensibly spending. I may be able to pay $1500 between the barrel and upper but I woumwould rather save the extra for other things.

There seems to be a lot of self contradictory statements made here. That is unless a compound throat is in fact magic. Using common sense and reasoning every chamber type has its preferred rounds. That includes the lauded compound throat so it seems. I am just pointing out the one sidedness for the SAAMI and how loading for your chamber still applies. Unless like i said, the magic makes it special. We use magic water at work, so its possible here too.

This thread title was about who makes SAAMI-chambered barrels. People asked about the chamber differences, and what contributes to accuracy. A lot of people have had variant chambers and have been members on the forum dating back to the old forum. I have not seen any sense of elitism. I'm also unfamiliar with the $700-$800 barrels you are referring to.

I paid $269 for my first AA barrel/bolt combo ordered from Midway in 2009. I didn't know anything about the chamber dimensions, other than it was a 6.5mm based on a more forward shoulder location off the PPC case, which is a renowned benchrest cartridge.

Back then, AA was carefully controlling the licensing of 6.5 Grendel Reamers to barrel makers who were willing to hold a certain standard, since it was a wildcat, and SAAMI certification was still on the horizon.

Bill A. has said himself that he's happy with more people shooting the cartridge, especially so when their rifles will reliably feed factory ammunition. That helps the cartridge in the long run.

I don't know about magic, but the compound throat works as advertised in my guns. When people ask for more economical barrels, I personally refer them to several sources, including barrels with a variant chamber in the sub-$300 range. I even sold a Grendel starter kit here through the site with reloading dies, our reloading handbooks, shell holder, mags, and a Brownell's barrel/bolt combo.

There are people who own .264 LBC barrels that were advertised as 6.5 Grendel. They feed and fire factory ammo just fine. There are others that have had problems. I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this, but there is no exclusionary environment on the forum based on what chamber someone owns. Heck, there are people on the forum that don't even own an AR15 (can't), or don't own a 6.5 Grendel, and are great contributing members.

[LRRPF52]

I'm not a coolaid drinker. I ended up here and looking on three other forums about information about this cartridge. I ended up here thinking it'd have the most information but I quickly began to realize that this forum generally is a fan of a specific chamber design over it just being a cartridge. It was the performance numbers of a bullet and cartridge combo that attracted me to this round not a throat design. Then due to the massive amount of bickering on both sides of the issue I almost said "screw the grendel" plus my modest budget had an influence.

I for the life of me cannot understand why a chamber design needs to be protected and celebrated. There are swiss army knives out there with 100 things on the knife. Sure sometimes the screw driver on the knife is convenient but there are times you would much rather a real screw driver. Sure the magnifying glass is possibly convenient but a real magnifying glass would be better, and so on. Just because something was designed a certain way at a certain time for certain reasons doesn't mean it always has to be that way. Improvements on products can be an advancement to a more complicated design or a more simple design, it happens both ways. Sometimes an "improvement" isn't viewed as an improvement to everyone and that's fine. I'm not saying the compound throat is anything good or bad to me, I just didn't buy one because I got a deal on something else.

A chamber design needs to be protected in any cartridge so that factory ammunition will work in it when the shooter goes to chamber a round of ammunition and fire. That's why we have SAAMI. People are welcome to play around with, produce, wildcat, and tinker with other chamber designs. The protection of specific chambers is so the customer doesn't end up with a gun that won't shoot factory ammo.

[Variable]

I'm not a coolaid drinker. I ended up here and looking on three other forums about information about this cartridge. I ended up here thinking it'd have the most information but I quickly began to realize that this forum generally is a fan of a specific chamber design over it just being a cartridge. It was the performance numbers of a bullet and cartridge combo that attracted me to this round not a throat design. Then due to the massive amount of bickering on both sides of the issue I almost said "screw the grendel" plus my modest budget had an influence.

I for the life of me cannot understand why a chamber design needs to be protected and celebrated. There are swiss army knives out there with 100 things on the knife. Sure sometimes the screw driver on the knife is convenient but there are times you would much rather a real screw driver. Sure the magnifying glass is possibly convenient but a real magnifying glass would be better, and so on. Just because something was designed a certain way at a certain time for certain reasons doesn't mean it always has to be that way. Improvements on products can be an advancement to a more complicated design or a more simple design, it happens both ways. Sometimes an "improvement" isn't viewed as an improvement to everyone and that's fine. I'm not saying the compound throat is anything good or bad to me, I just didn't buy one because I got a deal on something else.

Enjoy your barrel. I won't hate on you because you picked something different from me.

[jurassic]

Enjoy your barrel. I won't hate on you because you picked something different from me.

Love it! I think most on here feel this way.

[Drifter]

I ended up here and looking on three other forums about information about this cartridge. I ended up here thinking it'd have the most information but I quickly began to realize that this forum generally is a fan of a specific chamber design over it just being a cartridge. It was the performance numbers of a bullet and cartridge combo that attracted me to this round not a throat design. Then due to the massive amount of bickering on both sides of the issue I almost said "screw the grendel"...

The thread linked below is from nearly three years ago. The link will take you to page 3, where I think you'll find the discussion to be relevant and familiar.

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...-css/page3

I posted that link not only for your potential benefit, but also for those of us that have been around longer. I'll just leave it at that...

[LRRPF52]

Someone sent me this link a while ago and found it interesting enough to share:

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2015...s-it-gets/

Radical New Reamer Design from PT&G
Lou used a new chamber reamer from Pacific Tool & Gauge (PT&G) with special geometry in the leade/throat section. Called a “Bore Rider” (or sometimes “bore-runner”, this new reamer design cuts a staged, variable taper in the leade/throat area that is quite different than the taper in a typical throat. It’s a little hard to explain, so we’ve included the 6 PPC Bore Rider reamer print below.

Thanks for that blast from the past Drifter. It reminded me of some of the milestones along the way in this legacy. One important thing I had forgotten about was how so many barrel makers were dealing with demand, while not having any reamer or chamber prints for 6.5 Grendel even after SAAMI approval, which can be a long and painful process.

For example, the .458 SOCOM has been on the market now since 2001 and enjoys support from one of the biggest manufacturers in the AR15 industry (Rock River Arms), as well as one of the most well-respected custom shops (Wilson Combat). There still isn't SAAMI approval of the .458 SOCOM, yet it has been produced for a decade and a half, complete with its own share of reamer and chamber problems that have reared their heads for some customers.

The fact that the 6.5 Grendel went as early as it did through SAAMI submission and approval, and was a relatively pain-free experience once it was out of AA's hands, shows that it was very well designed and thoroughly tested.

I still think that many of the barrel makers are using other chamber designs because of the industry trend that existed before SAAMI approval, and the fact that most people go to PTG for reamers since they are fast.

A lot of customers in this generation are not known for patience, so that reflects in rifle builders.

[bwaites]

Am I looking at a compound throat from Dave Kiff? I'm not an expert on reading these, but that's what it looks like to me?

[LRRPF52]

Am I looking at a compound throat from Dave Kiff? I'm not an expert on reading these, but that's what it looks like to me?

Yup. See that .2435 and .2398 "staged, variable taper in the leade/throat area".....

That's a compound throat. From the article:

Radical New Reamer Design from PT&G
Experts should look at the leade angle(s), freebore, and throat dimensions. You may be surprised. Dave Kiff of PT&G says this Bore Rider design has worked successfully for other cartridge types/calibers as well. Apparently this design helps the bullet center up smoothly in the bore before the bullet engages “hard” in the rifling — or so we’ve been told.

The funny thing is that a compound throat doesn't work well in higher pressure chamberings because anything much over 55,000psi will plasma cut the shallow initial leade before the conventional one.

I wonder what other cartridge types/calibers they are referring to where this design has been so successful?

[bwaites]

Ain't that a kick in the pants? LOL