Tell us about your Midwayusa AR Stoner barrel.

[Ridgerider]

But what about all those other postings where people are happy and would recommend them to others? and why don't you answer my question? and give us the information rather than your opinion about what you have seen and let us all in on the truth. Or is it too much to ask that you back up what you state.

[sureshot]

Velocity will vary from barrel to barrel, even from consecutive barrels from the same manufacturer machined on the same tooling. Midway usually expects a 50% margin on their products, so do the math based on their pricing and you can get an idea of where they might be sourcing the "AR-Stoner" pipes from.

When I see a lot of their 5.56 barrels for $159.99, $119.99, or even $104.99, then figure-in even a 30% margin, there's no way those barrels are made in the US or Western/Central/Northern Europe. We're either looking at Central America or Asia is my best guess. Try to market a product to any of the big online distributors with 30% margins and see where that gets you, then ask yourself what margins they are going for on their own product line (at least 50%).

The next question I have for myself is, if they are willing to source barrels from Asia for 5.56, are they doing the same thing for the "6.5 Grendel" AR-Stoner barrels, and just upping the margins to 300% since they know they will fly off the shelf before they can even get them in, regardless if the leade in the chamber is short and definitely not a Grendel chamber?

Does that mean they are automatically crappy barrels? Not at all. Elisco Tool Manufacturing Company of the Philippines has been making M16 barrels and components for decades, originally under license contract from US State Dept./Colt. I'm the type of consumer who likes to know these things, but there is no way Midway is going to unzip the lip about where their AR-Stoner brand barrels and other parts are sourced from.

If anyone doubts that Asian barrels and AR15 parts are in the market, I've seen Dirtier than Cheap openly advertise $99 "M4" barrels in their catalog, and have seen distributor online catalog pages for AR15 parts, including sub-standard uppers, BCG's, LPK's, fasteners, etc. from Taiwan. If you go crack open your upper and look at your BCG, most of your carrier key fasteners will say "YFS" on them, which means the fasteners were manufactured in Taiwan, and are not anywhere near spec for USGI domestic mfg Grade 8 fasteners. With the right assembly procedures and tools, you can still achieve a long-lasting and reliable gas key seal with them, but the threads vary more in dia. towards the smaller side than USGI domestic mfg Grade 8 fasteners.

Same goes for carrier keys and every other part in the AR15. There are precious few AR15's on the market that have anything close to what's in a true Mil-Spec gun as far as materials selection, manufacturing processes, QC'ing and inspecting, and proofing goes.

I guess the thing that bothers me about the AR-Stoner barrels is that they are clearly not using a Grendel reamers based on the measurements several forum members have posted with regard to maximum COL (the leade is shorter), but they still feel that it's ok to advertise them as such, when the Grendel chamber is a SAAMI spec and any huge outfit like Midway can invest in Grendel reamers like the next guy.

The main thing is to be aware of your variant chamber's limitations, and load your COL and charges based on that. I still wish they would just have whatever sweat shop that is cranking these out at least use a Grendel reamer.

I have been reading this post chain and found a couple of things bothering me. I see a lot of assumptions made in the post by LRRPF52 and those assumptions being used as the base for other assumptions. It would seem that this person has a complete knowledge of where everything is made and what companies have for margins on their products. I would like to see more documentation by our poster here to back up what he is saying. But we can see that many others on this thread have already provided evidence of phone calls and cited their sources of information. I see none of that from our LRRPF52, which leads me to believe that he is unreliable in his comments. I now question his other posts as being suspect as well. I would like to see some answers from LRRPF52, responding to questions that some other members have asked him. Well LRRPF52, You up for it?

[XcountryRider]

Ok, the uncle in the basement started typing and got emotional on his opinions, we still love the uncle.....

We know everything is not always best worded and compared too when writing on The Forums, but we know where AR-Stoner's come from now.

Exactly lets get back on topic and put a hold on the bash fest.

[Ridgerider]

People I know have been very happy with the Stoner barrel and have had great results and would use them again and again. At this stage of the political climate we can only use what we can get and not everybody has the patience to wait 6 months to a year for a barrel that they may or may not get. I know if a Stoner barrel came up tomorrow I would take it in a heart beat because I am still waiting for those $4-500 barrels now for over 9 months. How does it go, a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush

[Tedward]

Exactly lets get back on topic and put a hold on the bash fest.

Got my 16" Grendel Stoner the other day and took it to the LGS. He put a Hornady factory round in the chamber and pulled it out with some film (oil, marking) on the end. He pulled it out and said I would not spend a penny on checking everything I want because he would charge me a hundred or more dollars to do that. He said its fine. I told him the ordeal and if it isn't broke don't fix it.

As for the accusations, some people just like to put something down they don't have and talk up the great product they do have. Like saying S&W is better than Kimber or Glock is better than Springfield. Personal preference and not everyone can be happy.

He uses Midway products and is happy with what he gets. You pay for what you get and Midway has some good deals on high end name products as we all know and you should be go to go even with there AR-Stoner (Liberty) Barrels. If you buy a barrel in bulk from Midway, you will get a better price than one from a small company or the manufacture. Thats why Brownell's and Midway are out there. One of them has better prices on the same part but the other has more of another item the other doesn't offer. Just the market.

With that being said, and he has many more credentials than I do and I take his advise. I'm getting ready to put the barrel on my one of my upper and and start a build.

keep posting but get back on trend......I'll post this weekend what I find out on my groups from my new 16" AR-Stoner from China...oppps, couldn't help myself...

[LRRPF52]

I've been on the phone with Midway several times trying to get an answer as to where the AR-Stoner brand barrels are from. I have yet to receive a straight answer. Every time there has been silence for me. First it was stated that they were ER Shaw barrels in this thread, after someone did some googling. Then it was confirmed that, no that's not correct, they're Liberty Barrels. See what I'm talking about? Best thing for them to do would be to take that AR-Stoner name off the barrels, since so many people have experienced great results with them. Just call them what they are and disassociate them from a product brand scheme that usually has less than mediocre customer reviews.

I'm in the same boat as everyone else. I want a good product at the right price, from a quantifiable source. At no time have I suggested anyone look at another product here. This is actually the first time I have received this type of feedback on this site about my posts, so I'm willing to look within and take responsibility for anything I've said that proves to be incorrect. My original post was admittedly not in line with the thread, and would be quite unwelcome anywhere else. I will not erase it, but update with an appropriate ending. I'm here to make friends, not burn bridges.

I have recognized over the years on the forum that for the most part, customers who have purchased 6.5 Grendel AR-Stoner barrels from Midway are happy with them, and I made it a point to state that. I just want to see everyone with as close to the industry standard as possible, to alleviate a lot of the headaches we have seen when other manufacturers have tried to jump on the wagon without meeting that standard. There are forum members who have ended up with complete abortions for barrels, and those barrels had "6.5 G" "6.5 Grendel" or no engravings on them, with no idea of where they came from. Trouble-shooting them was a total nightmare, and close inspection would uncover things like insane chamber dimensions, cheap barrel extensions that thrash your extractor, 1/2x28 threads?, and gas ports cut for maybe a 5.56?.

The end result was a barrel/upper/rifle that would choke on every shot, if you could even get them to chamber. There have even been customers who walked away entirely from this cartridge because they thought they had an industry standard 6.5 Grendel, when it was nothing of the sort.

Gladly, those issues have been minimal with the AR-Stoner 6.5 Grendel barrels, but there have been some. No product is perfect, but I would say that this one has a fairly good reputation. There have been issues that we've seen on the forum with extractor interface with the case rim, but this has also happened with other manufacturers. If you find yourself in this position, tuning an extractor is quite simple with some patience and a few brain cells. Another thing I have seen related here on the forum and on Midway's reviews are a few chambering issues, and shorter COL's than we would expect for the Grendel.

Midway has a stand-up customer service policy and reputation, and have been great about returns. In my case with the flaking BCG, I was overseas and had the product too long, so I didn't get refunded, but got store credit instead, which was totally fine since I was averaging a large order at least every 45 days.

I still think it's important for us as customers to let distributors know that we expect a certain standard, and will hold the entire industry to that standard, otherwise you end up with a scenario like the 6.8 SPC SAAMI chamber having an incorrect reamer made for it, which was quite dangerous and produced some of the most spectacular AR15 kabooms I've ever seen, the pictures of which have been thoroughly scrubbed from the net. That's the benefit of having seasoned people in the industry to remember those lessons learned, and pass them on.

Before the internet, you hoped you would be steered right by your family, local gun store owner, gun smiths, and industry reps. Since the internet, we're flooded with information that is easy to send without checking the veracity of it, so we need a filter that follows some type of logic. It's clear from my post about certain 5.56 barrels being from overseas under that name brand, that one could interpret or perceive that I was suggesting that their Grendel barrels might be from some 3rd world country. For that I am truly sorry if they are in fact Made in the USA. Just understand that I have been trying to get a straight answer as a potential customer for the same products, and have not received that answer after seriously searching for at least 2 years, to include inquiring from industry reps and other professionals who would know from my contacts at SHOT and elsewhere.

[Drifter]

FWIW, I doubt that a CS rep at Midway has any idea regarding sources for their house brands, and I doubt that their buying dept wants them to know. In some cases, there might exist nondisclosure agreements anyway. Not taking sides; just sharing what's relatively commonplace in the business world. Where did that Food Lion brand of green beans come from? Food Lion didn't produce it, and I doubt that they'll disclose the actual source. Some people will buy 'em, while others won't. Just saying...

[XcountryRider]

FWIW, I doubt that a CS rep at Midway has any idea regarding sources for their house brands, and I doubt that their buying dept wants them to know. In some cases, there might exist nondisclosure agreements anyway. Not taking sides; just sharing what's relatively commonplace in the business world. Where did that Food Lion brand of green beans come from? Food Lion didn't produce it, and I doubt that they'll disclose the actual source. Some people will buy 'em, while others won't. Just saying...

You mean they didn't come from the Food Lion Farm? I own two AR Stoner barrels and yes i like the trade mark name and think it was a great choice. I like Midway and love the excellent fast shipping. Back Orders are clearly stated as back orders unlike so many others. They have a nice selection of Grendel products and like the AR Stoner mags. Only issue with the barrels is the weight. Anyone send there AR Stoner barrel to get fluted?

[Tedward]

You mean they didn't come from the Food Lion Farm? I own two AR Stoner barrels and yes i like the trade mark name and think it was a great choice. I like Midway and love the excellent fast shipping. Back Orders are clearly stated as back orders unlike so many others. They have a nice selection of Grendel products and like the AR Stoner mags. Only issue with the barrels is the weight. Anyone send there AR Stoner barrel to get fluted?

I actually just bought a 308 barrel for and AR-10 and it was Fluted from AR-Stoner. Also marked .308 WIN 1-10 5R across the top of the barrel. So I have been wondering that if fluting can be done on my other barrels, so I started a new trend so we don't go off topic.

no beans about it....no pun intended either...

[Ridgerider]

No pun taken need one of those myself

[XcountryRider]

Went to the range today and i'm getting right at 2650fps for factory Amax and a little slower at 2640ish for factory SST. Good velocities but not real faster than others. The official MV for the Amax & SST from a 24in barrel is 2580fps from Hornady data. I'm getting 2425fps for 129gr interbond with 27.6 gr's of AA2520. 100gr Nosler BT with 30gr's of H335 is giving me 2875fps and 95 Vmax with 30.5 gr's of H335 is giving me 3050fps. Those are my 24in barrel velocities. My 18in barrel is sending out the Nosler 100gr BT at 2750fps. I'm liking that bullet for the 18in barrel.

[XOOFP]

Wow Country, that sounds fast. Just outa curiosity, does the change in trajectory at different ranges agree with your chrono readings for muzzle velocity? I don't have a chrono, but I plan to shoot 200 and 300 yards to see if the trajectory agrees with my rough calculations based on hornandy's reported velocities for 24 and 14.5 in barrels (extrapolating for my 18 in ar stoner tube). Anyone see any reason I would be wasting my time in that effort?

[XOOFP]

Well, I misread that. I see your chronoed velocities are in line pretty much for 24 in barrels.

[XcountryRider]

If you look at rickoshays range report he was getting 2958fps with the 95gr Vmax with 30.5gr of H335 with his Saturn 24in barrel. Same load and same chrony but my AR Stoner/liberty 24in barrel is getting 3050fps. So my barrel is fast but not out of the park fast. Pretty happy with it

[Tedward]

If you look at rickoshays range report he was getting 2958fps with the 95gr Vmax with 30.5gr of H335 with his Saturn 24in barrel. Same load and same chrony but my AR Stoner/liberty 24in barrel is getting 3050fps. So my barrel is fast but not out of the park fast. Pretty happy with it

so the extra 100fps, does that give an advantage of range and flatter shooting? Not a big difference but is there a noticeable performance?

thanks for the info too...

[XcountryRider]

My F1 master chrony came in the mail on Friday and got out and shot a few rounds through it this evening. The good new is the results confirmed the measurements i got twice from rickoshays magno chrony. The really good news is the increased velocities are also present in my 18in AR Stoner/liberty barrel. My 18in barrel (cut from a 24 in) is sending out the factory 123gr Amax at 2560fps. That almost as good as Hornadys 24in Amax figures. I need to measure a friends AR Stoner to see if its really a characteristic of the barrel in general.

[woohoo]

So...What about the accuracy from these "AR- Stoner"/Liberty barrels? Please let us know if the report was a quick group off the tailgate with a red dot or off a good bench with a good trigger and scope.

ETA- While we're at it. There have been a few remarks on the chamber. Do they have a short throat, compound throat and what may be the neck diameter? A 19/64 drill bit with the shank slid into the neck will fit snug in a 264LBC type chamber neck.
It takes a 7.6mm to fit snug in a Grendel chamber neck.